Albert Porters after market panzerholz plinths

The merits of using panzerholz as a plinth material because of its dampening properties has potential and should be explored among many other materials. It will come down NOT ONLY to the choice in materials but also to the "execution" of its implementation....your system biases, your personal taste biases/preferences, how much or how little is used [more isnt necessarily better, ie it is possible to damp one frequency too far, one not at all].

"On paper" it has good potential but in practice results may vary. This is what i theorize. I dont claim to know.

If dealers arent selling for profit what are they selling for? Are they donating to charity? or is panzerholz a worthy cause?

Perhpaps they believe in their product, would like to offer a good product and make a little money at the same time? Nothing wrong with that.

As i've stated ...my experience with panzerholz , in my situation was positive, i would say it was a step in the right direction. Did it fix every sonic fault in my vinyl playback? i dont think so...did it meet every single parameter necessary to complete the "perfect sonic envelope", I dont think so.

Am i loving the norah jones lp spinning on my record player with plain jane cld plinth ,with panzerholz armboard, breuer arm and allaerts cart?...Yes! very impressed! ...VERY impressed. If i changed nothing but only switched out the cld plinth for panzerholz plinth would it improve every parameter without the loss of any other? would it be an overall bettering of the sound? Honestly...I dont know...i cause i really believe that sound has to be "tuned".

You have to mix "cold" with "warm" in the proper proportions. Mix "analytical" with "syrupy"...

So...who can say that my birch ply/mdf doesnt beautifully compliment the cleaness of my breuer arm and panzerholz might be too much of a certain sonic attribute of which i already have enough of already from some other component?

"Neutral" has to be "cooked up" by listening, mixing and matching. I know my thinking might be a bit unorthodox but there is a degree of mystery to "good sound", WHERE.. you will find it , that is.

I am open to being way off ....and maybe a panzerholz plinth would in fact categorically, across the board, blow away the current perceived synergy i have with my current "ingredients" on my table and that in every hifi situation it is in fact the answer "categorically" and we all must abandon all other materials in favor of this one....but....

Ones mileage may very?

The best thing you can do....is....give it a shot. Then compare it against...slate or this or that and see if what you said about panzerholz after other comparisons still remains the same.

Will someone, someday sell, their panzerholz plinthed table for a table they preferred more? for sonic reasons? If yes, it doesn't mean anything, someone just needed to cook with different ingredients to get the sound they're looking for out of just their head and into their room.

When i did the panzerholz armboard "shoot out" i made sure to keep all parameters the same, except for armboard material utilized. I did this cause i like to be objective about the results otherwise i will forever wonder if it was in fact the material or some change in some other area in the system. [not knowing for sure would drive me a bit crazy]The panzerholz bettered the mahogany armboard in my situation. Its possible that i lost something but that i havent found it out yet. So far so good.

Logenn, Can you say that the only parameter that changed when you compared your panzerholz plinth to the regular plinth was in fact the plinth and only the plinth material? All other parameters remained equal? or was there a new arm? an new mat? , different interconnect? you moved the speakers around a bit? you tube rolled?

Thanks.

Logenn thank you for the acknowledgement.

Another factor which you bring up for a seriuos refurbish is the power supply and a thorough check up of the table itself .
I'll say just like anything once brought back to factory specifications you will appreciate the effort and extra time spent down the road.
These vintage dd tables sitting idle in many cases for who knows how long is harder on them then being used on regular basis.

Vertigo I believe Albert Porter commissions his plinths to be built by a high end furniture cabinet maker.
Shop time and work involved along with choice of materials puts per unit cost very high.

I'm confident Mr. Porter does not run a social program for the needy ; his starting prices are resonable.
The key here is in the design itself including the material.

Vertigo-When I commissioned the Garrard 301, it was recently restored by Loricraft with a new 301 power supply provided by Steve Dobbins as well as an analogue tube ceramic bearing.

I had two tone arms at the time, a Schroder DPS and SME 3012, and both sounded very in 2 different multi layer baltic birch plinths.

The cartridges were an allaerts MC 2 Finnish, Dynavector xv 1s and Denon 103 and the tone arm cable was a Purist Venustas. Of the two arms the 3012 was musical, but rolled off and the DPS was beautiful but lacked dynamics. Neither one had any real magic.

I was ready to liquidate everything when I heard an Sp 10 at Porter's home and frankly was floored. Both Albert Porter and John Semrod designed a plinth with layers of Bass wood and Panzerholst addressing different resonances. They were building a pair of Garrard 301 plinths at the time and I bought the one, while John kept the other for his personal 301.

I decided the SME was not for me and tried the Schroder, which catapulted in performance, but it was not until I installed a Triplanar did I realize this was seriously good stuff. The Triplanar and Dynavector were simply wonderful in the 301 system. All the components complimented each other quite well. Later I added a Reed with an Ortofon A 90 with equally excellent results.

I have not listened to other top class designs, but his one was/is a keeper.

Hi...

****Vertigo I believe Albert Porter commissions his plinths to be built by a high end furniture cabinet maker.
Shop time and work involved along with choice of materials puts per unit cost very high.

I'm confident Mr. Porter does not run a social program for the needy ; his starting prices are resonable.
The key here is in the design itself including the material.****

There is nothing like the experience of a skilled furniture cabinet maker over "backyard woodworkers". I can appreciate the beauty in a fine looking table. [ on a side note in this regard, i have often wondered how much influence a beautiful looking component has on our appreciation of its sound? that is when we are listening to something... if one piece is "prettier to look at" does it influence our perception of how good it sounds? I have a dutch friend who closes his eyes when he considers how good a system sounds or doesnt sound. At first i thought it a bit odd. Now on occasion i try it. I love the experience of a campfires glow in the darkness and i've often wondered if i love tubes and my sound...PARTLY because of the tone or kind of atmosphere they set when i listen to music. Somehow they're glow in a dimly it room makes a connection to norah jones's album "come away with me" more intimate, whereas if i listen to it in noon daylight it somehow doesnt hit me as much as in the evening, so i am exploring how much influence room lighting or the physical appearance of a piece can influence our biases on how something sounds[try listening to your system without the visual cues for fun and see what happens]....it is interesting that on a dimly lit room, with my 845b tubes glowing like a campfire, enjoying the beautiful cabernet stain of my lenco 78 that it all feels so wonderful and inviting but when i close my eyes to those beautiful things and cant soak in their beauty with my other sense, ie vision, i have sensed a bit of a loss in the experience of the music. This is interesting. Perhaps visual appeal plays a larger role than we know. Most of us audiophiles are men! and we are visual. Nothing like a beautiful girl all done up! Perhaps during the day there is more grid noise in the city and that is why i tend to enjoy music more in the evening OR perhaps its a combination of both less grid noise and a conducive ambient environment for connecting to the spirit of music easier.] So thumbs up to fine furniture making! How a component looks has always been in some degree important to me, not just its sound. My remark, which spawned your response, was only to say that not only is there passion behind building components but there is also a business side to it as well and consumers need to rememeber both those aspects when making a decision or when talking to a seller. Sellers sell because they would like to make a profit. I would recommend buying if the item has both a aesthetic appeal but more important...whether it has sonic virtues that will bring pleasure to the consumer. Everyone is looking out for themselves and people should only buy what is ultimately in their best interest.

********shop time and work involved along with choice of materials puts per unit cost very high.********

I will be blunt about this...forgive me...I really dont care. But with this qualifier...if it sounds amazing, then its worth it to me.

I see guys on audiogon selling 60,000 dollar tables for USED prices but own cheaper tables because they outperformed the more expensive one. Do i care that that 60000 designers costs are high? No. All i care about is the best table i can buy for my money. If the 60,000 dollar table sounds better than a slated lenco then i wish i could afford it but will have to live with the lenco. But if the slated lenco sounds better than the 60,000 dollar table well, too bad, i dont care how much it cost the designer, like the rest of us...i'm looking after me, right? I am only content to pay the designers overhead if and only if the product delivers the sonic goods, period. What do i care if his costs are high? If he has found a way to make a table that costs 1000 to build but it can sound better than a 60,000 dollar table then i would still be willing to pay for his ingenuity, even if his profits are huge! since he deserves it, because he created a wonderful table irregardless of his overhead! I will pay for sound but not for overhead. Thats how i look at it. I have a rough idea of what Alberts plinths sell for and i think relative to other tables out there and how panzerholz can make for a good table...his price seems very reasonable to me. I'm glad for his table and if anyone decides to purchase one i hope they will really enjoy it for the long haul.

Logenn certainly seems to be very happy with his results! I'm very happy for him. He said he was about to sell his previous stuff off...I can identify with that feeling! It is only in my 7th year ! as an audiophile that i feel i have arrived somewhere meaningful. Thats 6 years of varying degrees of frustration and partial joys. Its taken that long but i'm just glad that i'm here now.

Logenn, we'll never know...but i wonder how the triplanar with whatever cartridge you currently are enjoying with it would have sounded like on your regular plinth, with the new bearing and power supply THEN switched plinth materials ONLY. I'm not assuming the results, one way or the other but i just wonder.

On a side note...i know that to extract the best out of the schroders you have to really be a bit of an artisan with this arm. I know one audiogoner with alot of experience who said it has taken him a year to figure out how to set it so it can really shine and to really hear what it is capable of[i say this as one possibility as to why you were underwhelmed with your previous plinth material and therefore how much to attribut to the new plinth is debatable], but it must be used with a cart that is "very clean", "not warm" as the schroder already has that quality, not to mention what the choice of armboard and table materials is used in conjuction with that combo, to create a final overall tone and final sonic signature at the front end of things.
The triplanar i have read can be somewhat tricky but by comparison to the schroder it is easier to achieve success with it and has merits of its own apart from the schroder. What i am saying is...i think there are alot of things going on.... and getting to the bottom of it could be complicated, therefore results are to some degree inconclusive.

But whats coming out of the speakers!... is somewhat easier to recognize. ie We really like what is going on or we are ho hum about it or its really it bad! WE dont have to analyze too long for that. Its isolating the precise source of the "failure" point and trying to predict outcomes based upon components or their materials.....to acheive pleasant results that is the elusive beast. Thats why i think experimenting with different parameters and materials is very valuable, both for progress and for learning how small simple changes can make for profound changes in musical enjoyment. It really is elusive but when the planets align...wow...nice!

I am enjoying my zifandel 2011 made from grapes, which i accented the flavour with smoke oaked chips...Nice color...wonderful aroma and only 2 bucks for per 750ml yield.

My father who passed away june 15 was old school and never learned about additives to protect against microbacteria but all things considered, with a grade 4 education, he never had a wine spoil on him and he loved making wine, even though it was my mother who drank most of it! [smiling]

Have a good night.

Actually what i meant to say was:

*****Schroder needs a cart that is "very clean", "not warm" as the schroder already has that quality****

Actually what i meant to say was:

Schroder needs a cart that is "very clean", "not warm" as the schroder already has a organic warm signature and too much might go too far to the warm side of neutral.