VdH? Ortofon? Sumiko? Those seem like some pretty good choices Raul.
Perhaps that's why Lugnut and I mentioned them THREE DAYS AGO!
I'm not sure which close-minded people you were referring to, but thanks for keeping a watchful eye out just the same. Thank goodness they haven't shown up on this thread. ;-) |
Dear Mark: My advise is that don't do the TT upgrade, yet.
Change your cartridge: there are many exellent options, other than Shelter ( the people in this forum is a very closed mind in a very small audio world: they always recomended Shelther or ZYX, and even worst cartridges), the Van den Hul MC One Special is an exellent one (Right now you can buy it in the Audiogon clasifieds at a very low price ), Transfiguration Spirit MK3 ( in the clasiffieds, too. New ), Lyra Argo, benz micro Ruby ( clasiffieds, only 50 hours. This is a 3,000.00 retail price cartridge. ), Ortofon Kontrapunkt B , Ortofon Jubille ( clasiffieds. New ), Dynavector D172 MKII, Sumiko Celebration. All these cartridges will be fine with your tonearm/TT and with your Classe Six ( I own this one many years ago. Very good preamp. ).
I agree with you about VT: an average position.. Don't be foolish about it, not yet.
Now, about to buy second hand cartridges, my experience ( in Audiogon ) is 100% recomended: you only have to check the feedbak of the person, that he is the original owner and to know why he put on sale his cartridge.
Regards and always enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Mark,
One could "successfully" use nearly any cartridge on nearly any tonearm. They'd all play music. The idea is not that a Shelter wouldn't play or play well. It just wouldn't play its best. A more compatible catridge *would* play its best and give you maximum performance for your cartridge dollars.
YMMV of course, but if optimum performance is what you're after then optimum equipment matching is the way to achieve it. |
I have spoken with several dealers with vast experience setting up analog rigs, and all have successfully used the Shelter 901 with an SME 309. |
Mark,
That does indeed change things. The Grado Ref and other high compliance carts become viable, a Shelter goes out the window altogether. A ZYX would work with the optional headshell weight, but that's only available on higher priced models AFAIK. Now where did I get 11g? Whatever, I'm sure SME's manual is better than my memory. Good thing you looked and sorry for almost steering you wrong. Guess I'm getting too old to do this stuff from memory.
There are fewer high compliance MC's than low-mid compliance ones. Grado, some VdH's, some Ortofons, some Sumikos. The Blackbird mentioned by Lugnut would certainly work well. If his description is appealing I'd certainly trust his ears. |
You have a very nice system. My suggestion is to first make sure your turntable sits on a very rigid surface. Excuse me if you already have that covered but it's important. Also, it needs to be placed in a table friendly spot lacking frequency re-enforcement. That being said and considering your admitted laziness I would suggest the Sumiko Blackbird. I have a particular fondness for the Sumiko line of cartridges because they enjoy a stylus design that minimizes surface noise, aren't fussy about VTA from record to record, work well with most trailing edge arms and are a great bang for the buck. Of course, Doug is dead on with his recommendations but he is also looking to extract the last bit of magic out of the grooves. You haven't gotten bitten by that bug yet but you will if you pay attention to the details while you make this modest investment. Also, either invest in proper set up tools and ask one of the experts here to walk you step by step (on the phone) through the set up or pay a professional to do so. No cartridge, whatever the cost, will make magic happen if it's not installed correctly. Good luck. |
Hmmm, I'm trying to square this statement, Setting VTA is a hassle. I prefer to set it up so that things sound good for records of average thickness and forget about tweeking it. I would go nuts adjusting the VTA for every record. I just want to listen to the music. with this one, I use the LPs as more of a sonic treat for special occasions. I tend to appreciate it more. But if it's a special occasion wouldn't it be worth... Never mind, I'll shut up. :-) Based on your music mix I would love to recommend a ZYX R100 ($800). I think you'd be truly pleased at the uncolored, natural sounding instruments and voices, the realistic detail that's always there but never intrudes itself onto the music and the superlative tracking and tracing of even the toughest grooves. Unfortunately, that wonderful groove tracing and all its sonic benefits is largely due to the ZYX's microridge stylus. If you don't set SRA precisely to match the record, the magic won't quite happen. This is true of any cartridge to some degree, but it's truer of microridge and line contact styli than it is of elliptical or conical styli. OTOH, why not a ZYX? If you're in the "kick back and relax" mood nothing unpleasant will ever come from it. It may sound a bit relaxed and distant, but perhaps that would suit your mood. For those special occasions you can adjust it to perfection and wow yourself and your friends. Yeah, buy a ZYX. It's an excellent match for your tonearm and it can play to suit either of your listening moods. Go for the low output version. It's more responsive, delicate and detailed and your Classe phono has plenty of gain. P.S. Yes I have a Shelter 901 as my second cartridge, it's a distant second to be honest. The 901 is livelier for rock than a ZYX, but a ZYX quite outclasses it for jazz, folk, classical or any other music with acoustic instruments and voices. The 901 wouldn't be an ideal match for your arm, as we discussed, but if you want to hear it I'll be posting a home demo offer fairly soon. Keep your eyes on this forum. |
Doug,
I checked the manual for the SME 309. The effective mass is 9.5 gm not 11 gm. The arm is at the high end of "low-mass" or the low end of "medium-mass" Does that change things? |
These are high quality matched-pair resistors supplied by Classe Audio with Wonder Solder.
Setting VTA is a hassle. I prefer to set it up so that things sound good for records of average thickness and forget about tweeking it. I would go nuts adjusting the VTA for every record. I just want to listen to the music.
My taste includes classical, jazz, folk, alternative, and rock. I'm not into country.
The Sumiko was dormant for about 5 years. It really saw infrequent use. The stylus is acceptable but nearly worn out (assessed by microsope).
I knew I'd get crap about the RBCD. I like to kick back and read or sometimes just zone out while listening to music, so CD is much more convenient. Maybe I'm too lazy sometimes and don't feel like going through the record cleaning rituals, flipping the disc, etc...
I use the LPs as more of a sonic treat for special occasions. I tend to appreciate it more.
The Classe Six is a classic piece of equipment from the early 90s. It has one of the best phono sections for the money for a ss preamp of its vintage.
Thanks again, Doug for taking an interest. I see you have a Shelter 901. BTW, I could go a little hgher than $1000 if absolutely necessary.
Mark |
It looks like you have enough gain and loading flexibility to handle just about any imaginable cartridge. I'd be slightly concerned about inserting resistors to modify gain. They're in the signal path, so make sure they're good quality. How is the ease of arm height adjustment on the SME 309? I ask because some cartridges that offer sublime resolution and finess are very sensitive to that. I might not recommend them if changing SRA on a 309 is a pain, or if you would find it so. I would be leary of used cartridges except from someone you know and trust. I did it once. It could have been worse, but it could have been better too. Crap shoot. BTW, I'm surprised no one jumped on you for this statement from your original post, so I will: I didn't want to spend more than $1000 for a cartidge as the majority of my listening is still redbook CD. There is something seriously wrong with your analog setup if the majority of your listening time is wasted, err, spent listening to RBCD. Get a grip man! Your TT and arm seem respectable enough, so I point the finger at that 15yo cartridge. I don't know diddle about Sumiko's, but 15 years? Good grief. If you don't care about your ears what about your poor records? :-0 Replace that worn out thang with a good modern MC. Assuming the Classe phono stage is decent (no idea) that $11K RBCD rig can go back to what it's suited for, providing weight to help stabilize your TT stand! ;^) One more Q: what kind(s) of music? |
Thanks Doug!
Here are the requested specs for the preamp:
INPUT IMPEDENCE
Magnetic Phono= 47 kohms
Moving Coil Phono= Adjustable into 47 kohms
GAIN
Magnetic Phono= 35dB
Moving Coil Phono= 20-40 dB (Adjustable)
*Note: The MC gain is in addition to the standard MM gain of 35 dB.
**The preamp comes with resistors that can be changed out to make the gain adjustment
SENSITIVITY
Magnetic Phono= 3 mV
Moving Coil Phono= 0.3 mV |
Whoa, there Mstram. Slow down a little. Three posts (well, two anyway) on your own thread before anyone gets a chance? No fair. ;-) Has the technology evolved over the last 15 years to the point where moving magnets now have the resolution and finesse of a fine moving coil? In a word, no. Grado's have many fans of course, like any brand, but those who particularly value "resolution and finesse" do not seem to be among them. Grado's are widely praised for a very full-bodied and warm midrange. They are sometimes chided for a lack of HF extension and air, somewhat loose bass and two well known performance issues: a tendency to hum in the presence of unshielded AC motors and a tendency for the suspension to develop a "wobble" if mated to a less than perfectly matched tonearm. Search here or on VA for "Grado hum", "Grado wobble" or "Grado dance". You'll learn more than you ever cared to know. Maybe you'd have those problems. Maybe you wouldn't. I haven't had a Grado myself and couldn't predict. When choosing a cartridge for an existing system it must suit your phono stage electrically, but it must also suit your tonearm mechanically. Both relationships are vital. Let's start with the tonearm. Your SME 309 has an effective mass of 11g. This makes it suitable for a medium compliance cartridge. Something around 12-16cu would be best, depending on the weight of the cartridge. Your goal is to choose a cartridge that, when mounted on an SME 309, will yield a system resonance frequency somewhere between 8-12Hz, with 10Hz being "ideal". A Grado Ref is a high compliance (20cu) cartridge that weighs only 6.5g. Its resonance frequency on a 309 would be dangerously near the recommended floor of 8Hz. This could make it sensitive to warps, footfalls and other floor-borne vibrations. A Shelter 501MkII is a low compliance (9cu) cartridge that weighs 8g. Its resonance frequency on a 309 would be around 12.6Hz. This could lead to impaired bass response. I'd look at other cartridges. Neither of these is a particularly good match for your tonearm. For electrical matching you need to look up the gain (or choices of gain) and input impedance (or choices thereof) of your phono stage. Those two facts will determine the cartridge output levels and types it can handle. Find those two numbers and I'm sure useful and workable recommendations will be plentiful. |
I note that the Grado Reference is a moving magnet cartidge. My Alchemist IIb is of the moving coil type. Has the technology evolved over the last 15 years to the point where moving magnets now have the resolution and finesse of a fine moving coil?
Would the Grado Reference mate well with my 1990 vintage SME 309? |
I note that the Grado Reference is a moving magnet cartidge. My Alchemist IIb is of the moving coil type. Has the technology evolved over the last 15 years to the point where moving magnets now have the resolution and finnesse of a fine moving coil?
Would the Grado Reference mate well with my 1990 vintage SME 309? |
I was just offered a Grado Reference brand new for $900 from a dealer I've dealt with in the past. How does it compare to the Shelter 501? |
