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Any comments on DAC going direct to power amplifier or to pre-ampliifer?

My local retailer HIGHLY RECOMMENDS the use of a pre-amplifier.  Bricasti believes that going direct to a power amplifier sounds better.  And, I also know that everyone had a "different opinion" about going direct or using a pre-amplifier.  

I am running my Bricast1 M1 SE DAC direct to my Hypex NCore NC400 Bridged Mono Block class D power amplifiers (no pre-amplifier) and like the sound quality very much.   

For me, the sound is more natural and clearer by going direct to a power amplifier. Of course, I think the M1 SE DAC has special “custom" circuits in the analog section to make it sound so good. I returned home and listened to my system.  It sounds terrific and I continue to enjoy and recommend the Bricasti M1 SE DAC.

Please note that we removed the R141 (circuit) from my Hypex NCore NC400 bridged mono blocks, thus lowering amplifier gain by 14 dB, requiring 14 dB higher M1 volume setting for same playback level.  Bricasti says the goal is to have the M1 CLOSE to 0db front panel attenuation.  If you reduce the volume on the M1 SE DAC, you cause more bit reduction meaning you lose sound quality.   We discussed this modification with Hypex and they approved the removal of the R141 circuit.  They suggested we be very careful removing the 4 R141 chips (for my 4 NC400 amplifiers) to avoid board damage.  

I noticed that many of the newer DAC’s (even the new Ayre QX-5 Twenty DAC and many others) have volume controls meaning their DAC/Pre-amplifiers are designed to go direct to a power amplifier (as an option, of course).  

What are your experiences of going direct to a power amplifier or using a pre-amplifier?  Have you compared going direct vs. going to a pre-amplfier and noticed any sound quality differences?  Have you gotten different results from using different DAC's and amplifiers?   Your comments are appreciated.  Thanks.





hgeifman
hgeifman OP
2,182 posts
 
George:  Thanks for your suggestions. As I stated above, we removed the R141 circuit from my Hypex NCore NC400 bridged mono blocks, thus lowering gain by 14 dB, requiring 14 dB higher M1 volume setting for same playback level.  This allows me to increase the volume control on my Bricasti M1 DAC to a higher level as you recommended.  Changing the gain levels on the Bricasti M1 DAC requires a volt meter (?) to manually balance the gain between the left and right channels. If any one is interested in doing this, please contact Bricasti for the details.  

tls49:   You answered my question.  After thinking about it, I agree that the components used, the environment of the room and the listener’s preferences will impact the decision of the DAC going direct to a power amplifer or going to a pre-amplifier.  As you said, there is no correct answer because of these many variables. In my case, I prefer going direct to my power amplifiers. Thanks for your simple and great explanation.  


meerzistar
232 posts
 
"There is no answer to the original question. Answer will depend on specific components being used and what sound the listener prefers."

Agreed ^. 

"The dac should have an analog volume control because digital volume controls do lose bits as you turn them down and could effect resolution."

Im in agreement with the first comment, direct or bypassing PRE section. Both ways have worked favorably in different setups weather Im using a preamp, integrated amps or receiver. I dont know how or why a digital volume can effect resolution but I have not realized this to be the case.      
kalali's avatar
kalali
1,977 posts
 
tls49 has the most accurate answer but my personal experience with a completely different (and much lesser expensive) set of components supports the use of a preamp. Initially, the direct connection seemed more dynamic with more detail but the preamp added more warmth, less fatiguing and more realistic soundstage. Ears are the best judges. 
georgehifi's avatar
georgehifi
10,312 posts
 
Initially, the direct connection seemed more dynamic with more detail but the preamp added more warmth, less fatiguing and more realistic soundstage. Ears are the best judges.
True, if the transparency/dynamics of a direct connection became fatiguing, then it's a component in the system that's causing this, not the direct connection itself.
 
And yes you can band-aid fix this by adding warmth with a preamp to give the warmth colouration in the right area. But they all sound different. So the "right area fix", it maybe hard to find the right preamp to do that with. Better off finding/changing the "fatiguing" component

Cheers George    
kalali's avatar
kalali
1,977 posts
 

"Better off finding/changing the "fatiguing" component."

Absolutely agree. I know full well in my set-up, my mediocre DAC is causing the fatigue/digititus. Folks with high(er) quality DACs probably have better experience using the direct connection method. That is of course if the components match and they provide the proper gain to meet the needs of the listener.

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