Anyone listen to Zu Audio's Definition Mk3?

Daddy,

If you can find this thinking in any of Gear's writings please cut and paste it on this thread. I personally know Andrew and he does not believe that way nor has he written with that tone here on the Fourms. Maybe I am wrong Dad so please help me on this.

We are not married to the ASR/Zu speakers or any audio component. I do tend to think like Phil's write up on Krell/Wilson but the minute you say such things you find someone somewhere has put together a great sounding system with both Krell/Wilson.

My reason for posting his rant on this gear was to show you, Daddy, that one can have an all or nothing approach on audio gear and not be a baby needing to grow up. If you call Gear to grow up, and not finding any of his posts stating your believe about him, and I clearly gave you an example of Cobra doing what you accused Gear of doing then you should exhort 213 to grow up.

By the way I thought the 213 post about Krell/Wilson was a huge Hee Haw.


My only point addressed to agear was his attitude that the ASR is a superior choice to any tube and or SET amp without question and that simply is`nt the case

The Atma amp is an amp I would hold on to. If I could have worked with the OTL Tenor/Atma heat I would have never sold them. You will be hard pressed to beat the OTL. I found the ASR to do just that ...

Germanboxers,

You're in a good spot of equilibrium with Def4 + your OTL.

Two comments:

1/ The Audion 845 amps and Audion SET in general have qualities quite apart from almost all other SET implementations. It's far more articulate and transparent than Cary and its ilk. I did not commit to SET until I heard Audion. Black Shadow is the only 845 amp I recommend unconditionally, with others conditioned on caveats. I generally consider Sophia's 845 as next best to Audion, but trading a little more drive for a distinct loss of finess, articulation and some diminishment of tone.

2/ You can safely use the 845B as a drop-in replacement for the stock 845a in the old or new chassis Sophias. It sounds much better, too. I have two friends who couldn't afford Audion Black Shadows, who stepped down to old chassis Sophias on my recommendation to use the 845B from day 1. They've found the B better in every way, and reliable.

Phil

Thanks for the input German. The Dead reference is amusing. I have quite a few bootlegs along with a smattering of Dick's picks. My wife gets irritated by the Dead, and does not "understand" their musical merits other than being a road trip facilitator due to their fluid, undulating, and circular knoodling. That is a potential thread in itself...

Kudos to Zu for running an ethical and customer service oriented company. That is in vanishing supply these days IMO. A lot of weasels out there with substandard but heavily hyped product.

German, it seems as if you are a transparency man (like Gary). Would be interested to hear your opinions on the Emitter as several other IV owners have converted and are thrilled.

As for all the teeth gnashing about amps, let me clear the air about what I "believe" or think I know. When Gary was transitioning away from OTLs to SS due to heat issues, I was not expecting a good outcome. Ironically, he shared the same basic opinions of SS as Phil and Charles. The fact that ASR floated his boat was a REAL surprise. At that time, I myself was struggling with amplification. My TRL Dude/Samson combo did not synergize well with my new loudspeaker (Fried Reference). Things were a little too bristly. I thus started looking for new amps, including SETs. The designer, Steve Finley, had told me that many Ref owners used tube amps, including SETs. The best sound he had heard from them was fronted by Viva Solista 845 monos. Sooo, I was hunting for tube amps. I wanted something with slam and the "breath of life" phenomenon which you rarely hear. Options included Kronzilla, Solista, the big TRL stuff, Joule Electra, etc.

I did some preliminary A+B experiments with a Kora 50W SET that a friend loaned me, TRL, and ASR. I included my wife in the experiment (as I always do) in a blinded fashion. The ASR won easily. There were things TRL did a little better (dynamic energy) as well as the Kora (midrange subtleties), but from top to bottom, the ASR was simply more complete and satisfying. This was unexpected. Clayton Oxedine, the owner of the Kora, is a series xover guru who modded my Refs. He has been a SET and Vinyl only guy for years. He too was startled by how good the ASR sounded and told me he should consider one himself. The absence of tubes and hassle is a bonus with a 5 month old running around.

Is the ASR a perfect amp? The best in the world? Hell no. I am ALWAYS open to new things. Jim Rickets, who has sold Wavac and a lot of hi, hi end stuff, tells me that the new Alef stuff makes the Wavac and previous tube offerings sound broken. A little Italian integrated me sells (Norma) is supposed to make the ASR sound slow and sluggish. I told him to send me a demo unit but he declined. A local audiophile buddy is crowing about the new NCORE class D modules from Hypex and wants to do a shootout. It displaced his 15K Clayton class A monos. Fine. If its better than the ASR, so be it. It is not my child. I am not emotionally attached. This is all just a grand experiment.

The reality is that arguments about equipment (98% of this and other sites) is a bunch of empty hand wringing. Room and power trump equipment IMO. This is where I disagree with Phil most strongly. We have all heard the adage that the room is > 60-70% of a system. I now believe that is true. I am 80% done with a dedicated sound room centered around Starsound Technologies grounding scheme. I did some preliminary experiments with cheesewhiz gear (Apple AE, radioshack wire, Marantz AV integrated amp, and $300 Klipsch speakers). It sounds more real than my fancy pants stuff in a crap room. There are obvious problems in the upper frequencies, etc, but overall, it is a surprising discovery.

Glory – agreed re: Atma-Sphere amps. I’ve owned the MA1 MkII.2 ~8 years ago and liked them for what they did. I upgraded to the MA1 MkIII’s (after a brief run with high power SS, Parasound JC1’s) and loved the added finesse and a touch of sweetness on top the MkIII brought. With the M60 MkIII.1’s and Cu-foil Teflon Vcaps, driving a relatively easy load in the Def 1.9 and now Def4, there is much to love about their sonic merits. Comments from you and others regarding the ASR are intriguing. In time, I hope to be able to hear them to determine for myself whether they possess the combination of unique attributes that “float my boat”.

213Cobra – your comments are interesting re: Audion/Sophia amps. What I noticed with the Sophia’s in reference to the M60’s is that they were a little sweeter, had a little more “density” to the midrange tone, and a little more sense of coherency or “cut from the same cloth” sound (at least from upper bass to treble); however, the latter seemed, upon further listening, to be a coloration imparted on all music and ultimately became a bit of a distraction. There was also something going on in the upper midrange / lower treble that showed up on some tracks. Wished the mfg would have been more supportive of a tube roll to see if it addressed this issue, but he was not and I had limited time to evaluate them. The Atma M60’s had significantly more drive, a larger soundstage, more air on top & weight on bottom, though none of the aforementioned was perceived as lacking while listening to the Sophia’s. I have heard that the Sophia’s have a lower noise floor than the Audion’s? Although noise didn’t significantly factor into my evaluation of the Sophia, I wouldn’t want it to be too much higher. Can this be a distraction with the Audions?

Agear – thanks for your explanation of how you came to your current views regarding amplifiers. I always find the path one has charted in this hobby (as well as the associated knowledge and relationships) to be illuminating. It seems some sections of the path are almost universally crossed, yet depending on too many variables to list, each of us, at any given time, find ourselves at a unique point on our own path. And as such, each of us are differently inclined at any given moment to move in one direction or another. Enough philosophizing. I am curious about the NCore from Hypex…read one of their white papers and, although over my head technically, was interesting nonetheless. There seems to be enthusiasm, if not true potential, in the class D approach. Consider me a casually interested bystander at the moment though.

SpiritofMusic – dude, you are going to be stoked with your new Def IV’s!! I listened/watched several concerts last night with my wife. Sound quality from digital out of the Oppo Blue Ray to the LIO-8 has never been as good as firewire from MBP to LIO-8, yet the sound quality improvement with the Def IV’s was dramatic. My wife is generally skeptical and not terribly interested in “sound quality”, yet she was visibly excited about what she was hearing and how “smooth” it is and “voices are so much clearer” and “I can hear the other instruments better” and “I hear what that bass guy is playing now” and “I could listen all night at this volume…it doesn’t hurt after awhile like before” It’s definitely a winner in our household and to echo what others have said…it is a SIGNIFICANT upgrade from the 1.9.