Anyone listen to Zu Audio's Definition Mk3?

Wow…this thread has been “all around this world” to borrow a Grateful Dead song title. I could say the same for the 2 months just passed since I received my DefIV’s. I won’t bore you with the non audio related and only a little on the non- Zu Def IV related (some amp trials)

To cut to the chase and fill in the details later, I am listening to some wonderful sound coming from my Def IV’s as I type. It is open, coherent, surprisingly more transparent than my already transparent 1.9’s, beautifully sweet, and most importantly, musically engaging. Sean just left my house an hour ago after having hand delivered a new pair of Def IV’s and picked up my old pair of Def IV’s.

My original pair had a problem with the Hypex amp in one of the speakers. I can’t say enough about Sean’s commitment to making sure the problem was solved and that I was happy with the results. He didn’t need to build and deliver a new pair for me, but he insisted that this would give him the peace of mind that I was fully satisfied with the speaker. I can say unequivocally…I am more than satisfied with the speaker. And Sean’s efforts to fix the problem and ensure I was happy as a customer means a great deal to me. I was already a “Zu fan”, loving my Druids and prior 1.9’s , but this speaker, the Def IV, and Sean’s efforts and communication throughout this period have made me a “Zu Groupie”! Great guy! Great company! Truly Great Sound!

Hours after I first posted in May about receiving my Def IV’s I noticed a low frequency oscillation with no signal going to it. I measured it electrically at the speaker binding posts with my Fluke and found it to vary from ~16 Hz to ~20 Hz depending on parametric EQ settings. Amplitude was as high as 5 Volts at full volume setting on the Hypex. Of course, at this level, the doors and walls in the room would visibly shake. What I was hearing was a somewhat higher frequency than that, though below a 60Hz AC. If I had to guess, what I was hearing was the 2nd and/or 3rd harmonic of what I measured.

The result of all this is that whether for psychological reasons or physical reasons, I had a difficult time enjoying the sound, even with the EQ settings down low enough to not induce a measurable oscillation in that speaker. In direct comparison with my 1.9’s, the 4’s lost and lost consistently. That is definitely not the case today…the 4’s are a very significant upgrade over my 1.9’s!

While I waited for Sean to build and deliver a new pair, I listened to my 1.9’s. I took the time to determine if SET amps would move me in a direction I preferred compared to my Atma-Sphere M60’s. I bought a used Cary 805AE from a dealer in Indy…it definitely was not my cup of tea and certainly not worth experimenting with different tubes to improve it. Sold it and lost a bunch of money . I demo’d old chassis Sophia 845 SET monoblocks and there was much to like, even a hint of midrange magic. Alas, it seemed to impart too much of its own signature, a signature that included a bit of upper midrange glare, for me to be happy long term. It didn’t help that the mfg insisted that I not try an 845B tube (“amps are tuned for the A tube, don’t change tubes”) and not to worry about biasing the tubes (you cannot bias the old chassis amps without going inside the chassis), so I returned the amps to Sophia. I am still very curious about the Audion Black Shadows and also the ASR Emitter Exclusive, so I may seek answers there in the future. However, given how wonderful the sound is through the Atma-Sphere / Def IV right now, I am, indeed, content for the moment.

Daddy,

If you can find this thinking in any of Gear's writings please cut and paste it on this thread. I personally know Andrew and he does not believe that way nor has he written with that tone here on the Fourms. Maybe I am wrong Dad so please help me on this.

We are not married to the ASR/Zu speakers or any audio component. I do tend to think like Phil's write up on Krell/Wilson but the minute you say such things you find someone somewhere has put together a great sounding system with both Krell/Wilson.

My reason for posting his rant on this gear was to show you, Daddy, that one can have an all or nothing approach on audio gear and not be a baby needing to grow up. If you call Gear to grow up, and not finding any of his posts stating your believe about him, and I clearly gave you an example of Cobra doing what you accused Gear of doing then you should exhort 213 to grow up.

By the way I thought the 213 post about Krell/Wilson was a huge Hee Haw.


My only point addressed to agear was his attitude that the ASR is a superior choice to any tube and or SET amp without question and that simply is`nt the case

The Atma amp is an amp I would hold on to. If I could have worked with the OTL Tenor/Atma heat I would have never sold them. You will be hard pressed to beat the OTL. I found the ASR to do just that ...

Germanboxers,

You're in a good spot of equilibrium with Def4 + your OTL.

Two comments:

1/ The Audion 845 amps and Audion SET in general have qualities quite apart from almost all other SET implementations. It's far more articulate and transparent than Cary and its ilk. I did not commit to SET until I heard Audion. Black Shadow is the only 845 amp I recommend unconditionally, with others conditioned on caveats. I generally consider Sophia's 845 as next best to Audion, but trading a little more drive for a distinct loss of finess, articulation and some diminishment of tone.

2/ You can safely use the 845B as a drop-in replacement for the stock 845a in the old or new chassis Sophias. It sounds much better, too. I have two friends who couldn't afford Audion Black Shadows, who stepped down to old chassis Sophias on my recommendation to use the 845B from day 1. They've found the B better in every way, and reliable.

Phil

Thanks for the input German. The Dead reference is amusing. I have quite a few bootlegs along with a smattering of Dick's picks. My wife gets irritated by the Dead, and does not "understand" their musical merits other than being a road trip facilitator due to their fluid, undulating, and circular knoodling. That is a potential thread in itself...

Kudos to Zu for running an ethical and customer service oriented company. That is in vanishing supply these days IMO. A lot of weasels out there with substandard but heavily hyped product.

German, it seems as if you are a transparency man (like Gary). Would be interested to hear your opinions on the Emitter as several other IV owners have converted and are thrilled.

As for all the teeth gnashing about amps, let me clear the air about what I "believe" or think I know. When Gary was transitioning away from OTLs to SS due to heat issues, I was not expecting a good outcome. Ironically, he shared the same basic opinions of SS as Phil and Charles. The fact that ASR floated his boat was a REAL surprise. At that time, I myself was struggling with amplification. My TRL Dude/Samson combo did not synergize well with my new loudspeaker (Fried Reference). Things were a little too bristly. I thus started looking for new amps, including SETs. The designer, Steve Finley, had told me that many Ref owners used tube amps, including SETs. The best sound he had heard from them was fronted by Viva Solista 845 monos. Sooo, I was hunting for tube amps. I wanted something with slam and the "breath of life" phenomenon which you rarely hear. Options included Kronzilla, Solista, the big TRL stuff, Joule Electra, etc.

I did some preliminary A+B experiments with a Kora 50W SET that a friend loaned me, TRL, and ASR. I included my wife in the experiment (as I always do) in a blinded fashion. The ASR won easily. There were things TRL did a little better (dynamic energy) as well as the Kora (midrange subtleties), but from top to bottom, the ASR was simply more complete and satisfying. This was unexpected. Clayton Oxedine, the owner of the Kora, is a series xover guru who modded my Refs. He has been a SET and Vinyl only guy for years. He too was startled by how good the ASR sounded and told me he should consider one himself. The absence of tubes and hassle is a bonus with a 5 month old running around.

Is the ASR a perfect amp? The best in the world? Hell no. I am ALWAYS open to new things. Jim Rickets, who has sold Wavac and a lot of hi, hi end stuff, tells me that the new Alef stuff makes the Wavac and previous tube offerings sound broken. A little Italian integrated me sells (Norma) is supposed to make the ASR sound slow and sluggish. I told him to send me a demo unit but he declined. A local audiophile buddy is crowing about the new NCORE class D modules from Hypex and wants to do a shootout. It displaced his 15K Clayton class A monos. Fine. If its better than the ASR, so be it. It is not my child. I am not emotionally attached. This is all just a grand experiment.

The reality is that arguments about equipment (98% of this and other sites) is a bunch of empty hand wringing. Room and power trump equipment IMO. This is where I disagree with Phil most strongly. We have all heard the adage that the room is > 60-70% of a system. I now believe that is true. I am 80% done with a dedicated sound room centered around Starsound Technologies grounding scheme. I did some preliminary experiments with cheesewhiz gear (Apple AE, radioshack wire, Marantz AV integrated amp, and $300 Klipsch speakers). It sounds more real than my fancy pants stuff in a crap room. There are obvious problems in the upper frequencies, etc, but overall, it is a surprising discovery.