I’ve carefully factored in all aspects and concluded; the purchase of ATC SCM 50 ASLT towers in rosewood ordered through Big Ear Stereo in Tempe, AZ. (Unabashedly free plug there)
I love my Isoacoustics Gaia ll already in use under my ATC 40A towers. They work to great affect, so I get that again.
I like the idea of dealer support. I like the rosewood. I did not feel the Deer Creek stands were going to give the same affect with the 50 pro as the Gaia ll with floor standers.
Really, how wrong could I go? Aston or Ferrari?
Thank you for insight given. Cheers |
As I said earlier, buy the beautiful one or you will regret it.
(If you have to ask the question it tells me you value beauty)
Just tell the wife you made the same choice when you married her!
I believe TimberWorks? in th UK does all the wood cabinetry for Spendor, Proac and perhaps ATC.
If you are attracted to gloss black then this will be lost on you.
The hand selected wood. The time and expertise spent finishing them. It is an art that I appreciate, love and yes drool over.
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Thank you, excellent and informative response. |
IN the US prices of hi fi cabinet 50s/100s came down about year ago as to get them closer in price to the pro models.
It's not just a "black" vs veneer choice, its a significantly more than that which is why they are different in price. Pro is a painted MDF (what's normally under the veneer) with plenty of errors in the surface and randomized splatter paint. Expecting a visually flawless pair of pro models is not a realistic expectation, it will not happen. Consumers usually don't like them once they see them in person. Flaws in the MDF cabinet surface or the splatter paint are normal. On the pro side, pros don't want to spend even $1 on visuals of a monitor that sits in a dark studio all the time. Plus they beat them up over time moving them from studio to studio anyway. The pro finish is typically not good enough for someone's home, despite what they say before they actually see them in person.
Also pro dealers are used to self servicing customers that already know what they want, who can diagnose problems, measure things in their room, ship drivers back for reconing if necessary, diagnose issues, etc. Pro users don't really need support from the dealer. Consumer customers on the other hand usually expect significant support such as a well informed dealer who can answer all their questions about associated gear, cables, stands, amps, etc and is willing to spend the time to answer any and all inquiries. I find consumer dealers offer WAY more service to the end user than Pro dealers do. So this is the hidden difference that emerges after the sale for someone who buys pro but is really a consumer hi fi customer.
Consumer models have a proper veneered cabinet, veneered INSIDE and out (balanced so they wont warp) with matching left right "bookend" veneers. They spend an hour on the painted back and they spend days and days (over a week) hand making the veneer models, veneering each cabinet part individually. Higher gloss models take 2 weeks of steady "everyday" work as you apply gloss and then sand by hand. Our piano finish is 3 weeks of work on cabinet alone, 10 coats of gloss and yes-it costs a lot to do that. But its a lifetime piece of furniture.
A basic veneered hi fi pair of passive 50 floor standers is around 20K from a dealer in the US (with a US administered 6 year warranty and US tech support). |
Good point regarding room coupling and not surprised
with ATC's response, a benefit to checking in with the
manufacturer. |
I didn't know that. The internal chamber volume for the bass driver should be the same, so the difference you mention would be down to acoustic reflections from an open stand vs an elongated baffle, sides and rear; perhaps room gain depending on proximity to room corners.
P.S. Sound Anchors are still some of the best stands out there; not cheap but then again "mini-stands" for the 50 cab shouldn't be as expensive in terms of materials as for a small bookshelf. |
There is a difference between the pro model and the domestic model. While both of them are 50L cabinets, typically ATC suggests the monitor model if the room dimensions are relatively small. The floorstand version sounds a bit larger/bloomier hence it can overwhelm more easily in less than 250sqft room. My guess is it is due to the way bass builds up when speakers are on the floor. The monitor version when lifted on stands sounds a bit more compact and may be a shade dryer. Recently my cousin was in a similar dillema while deciding between active studio SCM100 vs active Floorstanding SCM 100. We asked it to ATC and their suggestion is as above. My cousin picked the studio version finally since room was just about adequate in size. |
I do not find the the ATC PROs ugly, I’ve owned Merlin monitors in black rough and it was fine. My original post simply asked for confirmation and/or insight into my understanding of the identical nature and performance of the two ATC products.
No veneering will take place. Thank you. |
Oh come on it’s just a cabinet; there’s no voodoo to the ATC cabs No voodoo for sure, since that isn't the ATC way. However any deviation from how ATC does its cabinets will result in different sound - why reinvent the wheel with the possible compromises? If saving money and 'shiny' cabinet is required I wouldn't cannibalise a genuine ATC to do it, just saying. Get the Pros or the Domestic version or purchase/build something else if they aren't to ones taste or budget. |
Oh come on it’s just a cabinet; there’s no voodoo to the ATC cabs - I’m just saying if they find the Pros ugly (I don’t - I got the 20 pros rather than the 19s, though yeah, they're not lookers), they could swap all the internals for a beautiful new cabinet. Replicate the bracing, lining, stuffing, vent, amp cutout, done. Of course, the 100s have more bass, but they’re bigger, more expensive, and the Pros will look as ugly to them as the 50 Pros. |
Jeez, if SCM100 pros are still cheaper than SC50Ts, you could get the SCM50 pros and pay a carpenter to build an identical dimensioned cabinet with the same roundovers and a luxury veneer!
Why would you do that? Sounds like a recipe to write off investment in a genuine ATC speaker system. Personally I don't mind the look of the ATC Pro speakers, though the domestic tower versions have their advantages. Better WAF for one, though ATC towers don't conform to the slim aesthetic that seems to be in vogue these days. I have SCM100 towers and like not having to mess with stands (I use my towers with Townshend podiums). The grill covers also keep the expensive drivers out of sight to any over curious children (and adults!). Domestic versions have the squared off protruding baffle designed for use with the grill cover that incorporates the rounded frame. Many people use the domestic versions without the grill covers, and they are often demoed that way, but I prefer the sound in my system with grills fitted.
If you like to ogle the drivers then perhaps consider the Pro version which are provided without grills and have the rounded off frame around the front baffle.
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Jeez, if SCM100 pros are still cheaper than SC50Ts, you could get the SCM50 pros and pay a carpenter to build an identical dimensioned cabinet with the same roundovers and a luxury veneer! |
The other thing worth considering is moving up a size in the Pro monitors.
If you could accomodate the SCM100ASL Pro it would offer some useful extension over the 50ASL - and would still come in under the price of the SCM50ASLT. |
How much could it cost to get them veneered? I'd buy the pro version and if the look bothered me I'd call a carpenter and have them veneered for a fraction of 10k. |
I had wanted the 3" soft dome experience for a long time, ever since reviewing the Wharfedale Opus 2-M2 for Dagogo.com years ago.
I found a used pair recently for under $1K. I'm quite pleased and have it running with four channels of the Legacy Audio i.V4 Ultra Amplifier (also reviewed for Dagogo.com). It would be interesting to hear an equivalent active or passive ATC or PMC versus the Wharfedale with the Legacy amp.
There is a floor standing set of Opus speakers for sale on USAudiomart. It would almost be worth buying the entire set to get the towers if the goal is to get the majority of PMC or ATC performance. Who knows, maybe even preferential, dependent upon systems compared. The 2-M2 specs compare favorably to the others. :)
There can be some interesting options if one keeps their eyes open. I have heard PMC and ATC before, and I don't think I'm off by much performance-wise. It would be impossible to say apart from a direct comparison, and that also applies to dealers and manufacturers.
I am not interested in debating my impressions and observations. |
You don’t think you could do what? Pay the 10K extra or have pro monitors in your listening room? Personally, I would keep the 10K in my pocket. |
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Exactly as you said: same drivers, same amps, different cabinet finish quality, vertical height, and price tag. I’m jealous; one of the best speaker designs there is. |
