Atma-Sphere M60 or David Berning ZH270?

As our very dear friend Michael (Swampwalker), has owned the Berning ZH270, AtmaSphere M60, AND a Joule Electra, he is the authority here. From his experiences and perspectives, which I trust a great deal, the Atmas are a bit warmer and richer than the Bernings. This would suggest a better marriage with the Coincidents...

But, as Spencer pointed out, with my Coincidents, which are incidentally warmer and more full bodied than any other pair you will find out there, the OTL sound does not seem to suit them as well. Not that the sound is bad, but it is does have a bit of harshness and brightness that I was never able to get rid of with my MKII.2. The MKII.3, plus a lot of upgrades instills the liquidity that I need into the sound.

Still, after the holidays with my Granite monoblocks, and ESPECIALLY this past weekend with my Jadis, I am more or less convinced that the Coincidents sound best with a transformer coupled tube amplifier. I know that the rumor is that Israel Blume has used the M60s to voice his speakers (and a call to him will show he knows A LOT about the amps), when he released his own line of tube amps, they were transformer coupled SET 300B based. And, at CES, for the past several years, he has partnered with EveAnna Manley, to rave review.

In my experience, an OTL amp seems to mesh better with a more relaxed speaker, such as Spencer's Merlins. That Dynaudio Esotar is a much smoother tweeter than the ScanSpeak Revelator used in many of the Coincidents. This is not to say which tweeter is better or worse, as both have their legions of devoted followers.

And, for whatever reason, as Spencer said, my specially modified pair of Frieds (they were Bud's own pair up until we got him a new pair of Studio VIIs this fall), seem to just make really good sound with the AtmaSphere M60s. I think it's the "resistive load" loudspeaker that meshes so well with the OTL (remember, Ralph owned Frieds for so many years).

For what it's worth, I am not a fan of running less tubes in the Atmas. Yes, you'll throw off less heat. Yes, you'll use less electricity. Yes, this. Yes, that. But, if you are really concerned about these issues, I would say that the sonics of the two amps are probably similar enough to say that the Berning would be the obvious choice.

Laoyuap, just to complicate things a little more, the Berning with all of the mods that Allan Bhagan has come up sounds notably different than the stock Berning. Neither Duke nor Swampwalker indicated whether they heard a stock Berning or a modded one (although I seem to remember from a previous thread that Swampwalker heard a fully modded one? Not sure). I think that most of us Berning owners have gone for the mods, and are very happy with them. Of course, the modifications do cost some additional money, but IMO the mods are worth it.

For the record my ZH-270 is partially modded. It has the cryo output tubes/ERS mod. And I am using Merlin VSM-MMs right now.

I have owned Coincident Super Eclipses; smaller Victory; and for the past couple of years the Total Victory. I have used many different amplifiers on them, and have found a good push-pull triode circuit to me most effective (especially on any of the models BUT the smaller Victory, which is really the ONLY Coincident speaker in my humble opinion that can make do with an SE amp <20 watts).

The Super E's do like a bit of power (amps that have worked well on them in the past for me were the 1009 60-watt ASL PP triode 845 monos; and a very cool set of modded Altec 1570B's using a pair of 811's per amp- they were fantastic with the SE's. Trelja made a good point though- the Super E's WILL show up ANY harshness in upstream componentry, so audition with the speakers IF you can...

I have even bi-amped the Super E's in the past, which can produce fantastic results, and I am about to try it with the Total Victorys- ARC VT100MKIII on bass/mis-bass; and a customized pp2A3 on mids/ribbon tweeter- it's going to be a fun experiment!

In summary, to Trelja's other point, Israel is definitely in the transformer-based tube amp camp, and as I live 5 minutes from him, we have had a lot of fun trying many amps with all of the Coincident speakers. Our most recent experiment was a set of the Dehavilland 50-watt GM70 SET monos. Except for not being able to rock and roll too well, the were superb on the Super E's- excellent detail and delicacy- on the smaller less 'hungry' Victory, I could probably live with them, as I have become a big fan of the medium-high power big triodes (845; but even better the 211). One day for a second system, I want to get back to the smaller Victory's in a smaller room with the Air Tight ATM-211's- something tells me that would be a magnificent combo...

hmmm bery interesting thread. i had the Atma's in my system (the MA-1's) and loved them with my Sonus Faber Guarneri Homage's, in fact i liked them much more than amps from VTL, AR, Bel Canto and CJ. Ultimately, i preferred the sound of the Atma's, but but there were some serious practical considerations - heat ( A LOT OF IT, which is ok in MN winter, but any other time of the year, forget it), open tubes (i have a 2 and a 4 yr old), monoblock design and upkeep(not cheap).

Still, as i have mentioned in other posts, i was still ready to buy a set - then i bought the Berning, mostly on a whim, and have not looked back. It provided 95% of all that 'magic' that atmas did, yet gave better bass and dynamics, and runs only as hot as a 300 watt light bulb. I love this amp more than anything else in my system (well, equal to the Guarneris)

Having said all that, i think both are excellent, but for my $, the Berning is a better all-around performer, and has all those built-in practical advantages.