Audio Research Ref 5 and Krell amps

Tylercoupe,

I don't know I would agree that the Ref 5 is any more than 80% of the 40th AE. I had them both for a while and when swapping back in the Ref 5 the sound compared to the AE was thin (something I never thought I'd say about the Ref 5!) and had far less speed, macro and micro dynamics were no contest, the AE blew away the Ref 5, the background was quieter too. In fact, while the AE definitely has better bass control, that was the one aspect that was least significant in my system.

While I am sure the better value likely lies in the Ref 5 SE (especially as you can't buy and AE anymore!), their is no way it comes that close to the 40th AE!

Kenny

I would not ever use the word thin with ARC Ref series. I do agree that a lot of the improvement you hear is due to AE being so neutral that it gets out of the way and just presents the performance...no signature at all. The AE is a great preamp...one of the best. I still believe the changes to the Ref5 SE will take the 5 very close to that level. I will wait and listen to both and then provide my findings. Enjoy your AE....it's a special component.

Smoff

I am not familiar with your speakers or amps so tough to make a call. What I can say is that GNSC makes real improvements and will typically make improvements that ARC could not at it's product design price points. Sadly, Steve and ARC no longer play nicely together so upgrades no longer available. I have a ref 2 mk2 and VS115 both upgraded by GNSC and it is a great combo. I am replacing w/ref150 and 5SE. But the vs115 w/GNSC was good enough to not lose out to the Ref110. And I am not willing to sell these units

I expect the Older Ref amps (210/110) may sound better than your older classics...but if you are enjoying them now...I would not jump to 210...watch and wait for a 150.. If the 120s give you enough power now...that should be perfect amp...the Ref 3 can continue to be control...I imagine your system sounds great now...a little more classic ARC...which isn't bad...enjoy while you wait.

Tyler,

The difference went far beyond the AE being more neutral. The attack was so much more dynamic it was amazing, I agree I never thought I'd use the word thin to describe the Ref 5 which was my own personal reference for a few years but compared to the AE? Hate to say it but it is!

Cool...it's great to find a component that really works in your system

I will let the SE break-in some and then bring the AE over to compare. I won't be able to replicate your experience as I will use Ref 250 monos for the "cage match" and I think you use a 3 channel Evo. I use Transparent Ultra throughout... But speakers will be the same...Sasha right...wonderful speaker. I expect differences but not dramatic...much like the improvements the 250s provided over the 150...but will report what I hear.

Bottom line is you are happy regardless of whether 5SE is 95 or 99% of AE...all three of these preamps are great. And at this level we discuss relative changes...and the price people are willing to pay for those is highly dependent on individual preference...and there is no right answer...just some answers cost more than others. :)