Audio Research Ref 5 and Krell amps

I have access to Ref 40 and just picked up Ref5SE...

When listening to 40 v 5(non SE). I would say the 5 got about 80-85% of the 40...but was weaker primarily in lower register definition and transparency...the 40 just has very little signature. I expect the SE will change this and get closer to 95-98% of 40 for half the cost.

Need my SE to break in but will report in a few months...I don't expect the SE to top 40 but it will be a hifi bargain

FWIW...I think Ref 150 is hifi amp bargain...I have both 150 and 250s...and while 250 is better primarily in low end articulation and at higher volumes...there is a range in which the 150 is almost there for a lot less...and that's a lot of extra $$$$ for music

Hi Tylercoupe. I have a REF3 LE and REF Phono 2 which had been "modded" by Steve Huntley (GNSC) when i got them new from the Dealer. Looking at some of the pictures from the link above shows stunning similarities between my modded units and those in the SE models. The main differences, at first glance, are those teflon coupling caps that i do not have in my 2 units although several Caddock resistors have been installed in key signal path and additional Black Gate caps in the power supply mounted on the side rail the same way ARC has done it.

I'm intrigued about your assessment of the REF 150 and 250's though. I currently have a pair of Classic 120's (circa 1990) also modded by GNSC. As good as they are, I am considering replacing those with the 150 or a pair of 250's.
Truthfully, i would have to take a second mortgage on my house to afford the 250's at $26K but could however manage the 150 or a used pair of 210's with KT120's.
My speakers are Verity Audio Parsifal Ovation.

Happy listening and Happy New Year !!
Sly.

Tylercoupe,

I don't know I would agree that the Ref 5 is any more than 80% of the 40th AE. I had them both for a while and when swapping back in the Ref 5 the sound compared to the AE was thin (something I never thought I'd say about the Ref 5!) and had far less speed, macro and micro dynamics were no contest, the AE blew away the Ref 5, the background was quieter too. In fact, while the AE definitely has better bass control, that was the one aspect that was least significant in my system.

While I am sure the better value likely lies in the Ref 5 SE (especially as you can't buy and AE anymore!), their is no way it comes that close to the 40th AE!

Kenny

I would not ever use the word thin with ARC Ref series. I do agree that a lot of the improvement you hear is due to AE being so neutral that it gets out of the way and just presents the performance...no signature at all. The AE is a great preamp...one of the best. I still believe the changes to the Ref5 SE will take the 5 very close to that level. I will wait and listen to both and then provide my findings. Enjoy your AE....it's a special component.

Smoff

I am not familiar with your speakers or amps so tough to make a call. What I can say is that GNSC makes real improvements and will typically make improvements that ARC could not at it's product design price points. Sadly, Steve and ARC no longer play nicely together so upgrades no longer available. I have a ref 2 mk2 and VS115 both upgraded by GNSC and it is a great combo. I am replacing w/ref150 and 5SE. But the vs115 w/GNSC was good enough to not lose out to the Ref110. And I am not willing to sell these units

I expect the Older Ref amps (210/110) may sound better than your older classics...but if you are enjoying them now...I would not jump to 210...watch and wait for a 150.. If the 120s give you enough power now...that should be perfect amp...the Ref 3 can continue to be control...I imagine your system sounds great now...a little more classic ARC...which isn't bad...enjoy while you wait.