Audio Science Review = "The better the measurement, the better the sound" philosophy

I had to weigh in as this is too hard to resist.

ASR could not be MORE MISLEADING if they tried.

The information may be interesting to some, but it is USELESS as far as how realistic music reproduction will sound. The guys at ASR are not even Music people, they are uptight tweak heads that sit inside all day on test equipment. They have no place talking about music gear when they should be data analysts. They dont listen to music for Chrissakes... and talk smack about gear based on their own brand of measurement.

I know several KILLER pieces of gear they have trash talked that are some of the best out there. So clearly some of the gear that measures worst in their tests is some of the most endeared Audiophile pieces. Like the Truth Preamp someone mentioned. HIGH LEVEL AUDIOPHILE gear at a great price, and they trash talk it. Total Imbeciles. Like Jeff Rowland Model 125 Amplifier. Absolutely kills the $3500 competition, but they smack talk it. Ive personally sold 14 of them with a Bona Fide return policy, instead of returns the buyers buy a second piece and bridge them as monos. So take what they say as guys that know nothing about music and think good spec equals good sound (Read: FOOLS) 

If they are so smart and good at what they do, why dont they have a room at the HiFi show to show us all how "Great" they are at picking gear ?? They cant because they are HORRIBLE at picking gear. Because they think measurement equals happiness... NOT.

Take for instance imaging. If you are half an Audiophile you know that some gear images and some does not. With the same signal.. No different. If you think the same measured signal on 2 pieces of gear means they will sound the same, you have been stupefied. (Made stupid)

If we follow the thought patterns of the ASR Clowns, then there would be a perfect mathematical calculation and resulting math for "great sound". Then everybody would just follow that equation and everything would sound great all the time. Well let me break fact down for the ASR Believers. There is NO mathematical formula for good sound. And its most certainly not the marketed audio spec. Spec gives you a rough approximation if this is the gear that will match what you have, not how good or bad it will sound.

If you think measurement can tell you how it sounds then tell me:

What measurement is used for depth of Soundstage ?

What measurement is used for Tonal Density ?

What measurement is used for level of Realism ?

What measurement is used for level of Emotional Engagement ?

What measurement is used to gauge Sonic Trigger of Analysis for recorded music ?

LOL< ASR is a ridiculous parody of what makes audiophiles chase their tail for eons. SPEC WAR.... holy buckets people... didnt you learn this with Contrast Ratio ?? Its meant to wrap you up into B.S. Spec that means NOTHING compared to listening.

Finally, this has NOTHING to do with COST of gear. Spec does NOT help you save money... LOL, that’s preposterous ! I would argue it helps you WASTE money since you’ll buy a good spec number and then teach yourself that the soul-less . sterile, perfect measured, glistening shiny music is in fact good sound... ITS NOT !! its the biggest LIE in HiFi... that good spec equals good sound... Wow....

Do you believe "if it cant be measured it does not exist" ? Then what about LOVE ??? (Dont say oxytocin.. get real)

@mikepowellaudio I couldn't have said it better.

I am a member at ASR, as well as many other, along with numerous YouTube "Hi-Fi" subscriptions. All of them have their fanboys that will defend their favorite forum or YouTuber as if it is the greatest. ASR is mainly an engineering forum in my eyes, discussions of build quality and measurements. If a product measures with lots of distortion they are going to have words about it, even if the distortion is inaudible..which they will normally make the reader aware of this distinction. Most of their types of reviews are about taking a signal from the beginning of a product to the end and focusing if the signal stayed transparent or degraded along the way. How it sounds is not their main focus, that’s for you to determine is how I take it.

If you want to talk about how buttery your midrange sounds it’s not the place...but there are a hundred other forums that would love to hear about it...so go there when you want to share that type of information. I don’t post very often at ASR but I have learned a lot there and I’m glad a website like that exists. Do I make all my purchases because of high SINAD rating? No, but it helps as a starting point for certain types of gear I may be looking for. I have my own brain and I’m able to make my own decision on what sounds good to me without asking a hundred different people about what they thought about something I purchased.

I think people are wrong for trying to pigeonhole any members of ASR or any forum. With ASR they are based on science, and if you don’t agree with how they do things or their findings you will have to prove it by their standards or you won’t change many minds. If you don’t have the wits to do that then don’t bother..and I’d say don’t worry about it.

Take these measurement sites for what they are, there is much to be learned from them for the average Joe with no technical background. If a product you own measured poorly yet sounds good to you then so be it..no need to get upset about it. To me great measurements don’t always equate to great sound, but measurements do have meaning and can tell you a lot about what you are or are not hearing..although perception is a whole other can of worms.

Anyway, I just didn’t like the bashing of anyone that is a member of ASR..with that mindset you are no better than the people there or anywhere that do the same thing. I think if you were a regular at ASR and see some of the things discussed on a daily basis you might have a better understanding of what they are about, doesn’t mean you have to agree with everything, but if you want to speak up about it you should be prepared to prove it..and I think that is fair.

@mattw73 "With ASR they are based on science, and if you don’t agree with how they do things or their findings you will have to prove it by their standards or you won’t change many minds."

Nicely said. But "science" in this context is a position of authority with very little self-criticism or curiosity. It is biased science. The research has already been published decades ago. Floyd Toole comes to mind. The conversation is framed in a way where you have to challenge the existing dogma (Floyd Toole et al...) with solid evidence. Practically nobody has the credentials to challenge that dogma and still be taken seriously. This is why ASR has the highest authority (in their minds) when it comes to audio. In other words "trust the science". 

And I know that I will probably be diverging the conversation towards the meaning of "science". And that is futile. I'm merely pointing the finger at the bias of ASR. Science, a.k.a. objectivity is not immune to bias. This is how you get under ASR's skin. 

And you can disagree with ASR, but you cannot express your disagreement with ASR on the ASR forums without risking a ban. You can disagree with ASR on other message boards. 

@mikepowellaudio The specs are definitely a distraction but I have to give credit to ASR for shining the light on those dirt cheap class D amps with Infineon and Texas Instruments amplifier chips. They sound fantastic to me. But I don't have the highest expectations and YMMV. 

So if you view ASR as a site which focuses on entry-level Hi-fi it definitely has a place.