Audio Science Review = "The better the measurement, the better the sound" philosophy

@crymeanaudioriver

I don't know your backstory @cd318 mine is in the sciences. I fully admit I went through the same as you did. I probably spent a small fortune on audio magazines, tried all the tricks, etc.   I don't consider it a sign of weakness to admit I was mistaken. Is that why some are so ardent that they will not even challenge their own beliefs. They don't want to admit weakness?  Perhaps I could have related to it when I was younger, but today it is very foreign to me. It's a conscious decision to not grow.

 

 

Yes it is, but that's what time and life can often do to you.

Fortunately or unfortunately, life only lets us go forwards so it's often a question of whether to retreat or grow?

Reminds me of that Bob Dylan line he wrote when he was no more than 23 or 24,

"He not busy being born is busy dying,". 

 

@axo1989 

I’m not a former/converted subjectivist, however, so I don’t have recovery PTSD to contend with or commiserate over.

 

Glad to hear it.

We don't need any more folks becoming disgruntled with the endless review fuelled ladder climbing shenanigans that eventually don't lead to anywhere, do we?

I'm sure that sites like ASR can certainly help when it comes to  audiophile post traumatic stress disorders. 🙂

 

Reviews are usually best taken with a pinch of salt.

At the weekend I finally got to hear a brand of often well reviewed loudspeakers that feature horn loaded drivers.

Just within a few seconds I was surprised at just how excessive their 'smiley EQ curve' presentation was. For me, they were unlistenable, and yet many seem to like that kind of presentation.

Including some notable magazine and YouTube reviewers.

Tastes are individual, fair enough, but their midrange suckout would surely show up on any frequency measurement chart as a huge problem if you were seeking accuracy.

It did leave me wondering a little just how such speakers get so many respectable reviews.

On the other hand I also heard some Bayz Audio Courantes Courante speakers which sounded totally different to anything else in the show.

Despite, given their price, their terrible looks (a distant grown up version of the Linkwitz LX Mini?) they sounded fabulous. A totally box free and a more life-like presentation than anything else at the show.

Unfortunately the demonstrator seemed determined to keep playing the same 6/7 well recorded jazz/ instrumenal tracks all day so we never got to hear just how good they were with anything else.

Nowadays I would say that if you're not going to go via the measurements route then it's absolutely essential to audition speakers with a wide variety of music if you want to check them for accuracy.

Even the most diehard of subjectivists must sometimes ask themselves how much accuracy matters to them, surely?

Perhaps it's this question of accuracy that this sometimes heated debate is really all about?

Extreme subjectivists might not care for it, some others might dispute our existing means of testing it, but the rest of us all do want playback accuracy, don't we?

The apogee scintilla has low impedance, but it is mostly resistive and stays right around 1ohm.

@russ69 , please do list them. I am curious. The Scintilla seems unique.

@invalid , my limited understanding suggests that being mostly resistive, this will be less trouble?  You would need a lot of current to get volume I assume.

 

@cd318 , @noske , there is almost a perverse need to prove ASR wrong, which I expect will be a tough hill as there are a lot of loud technical people on that forum. That does not mean they are perfect, but far more predominantly right than wrong. Stereophile and others are brought up, but I have never seen the sophistication of measurement, the diversity, or the apparent level of equipment from any of these other sources. That is doubly so for speakers.  If most of the detractors spent 1/4 the time trying to understand the information that ASR puts forth as opposed to all the time they spend listening to apparently other unqualified detractors, they would advance their knowledge. Some things I have seen written on ASR were not obvious to me. I recognized my lack of knowledge and tried to learn as opposed to dismissing due to my own failings. That is the only way to grow.

Tastes are individual, fair enough, but their midrange suckout would surely show up on any frequency measurement chart as a huge problem if you were seeking accuracy.

It did leave me wondering a little just how such speakers get so many respectable reviews.

 

Is this not the same condition with photographs, or movies, or food, or wine.  One can emphasize a particular quality, and by emphasizing that quality, or flavor, the person experiencing it will have a heightened experience which will be perceived as superior. A complex and well balanced oak taste to a wine can hide the fact that it is lacking complexity of other flavors. If you like oak, which many do, you may be enamored and not catch what is missing.  Obviously good tasters will catch that, there are far more tasters and reviewers than there are good tasters and reviewers.

 

 

@russ69 Maybe 85%-90% sounds right.  There are many lower efficiency, low impedance, high phase angle speakers but so many more are easy to drive (horn loaded, Tannoy's, etc.) with only one set of difficult parameters (e.g. Harbeth's-low efficiency, nominal easy impedances, my Legacys with high efficiency, lower impedances).  The Apogees and MBL speakers are anomalies whereas common Maggies just need power).

 

Reading far more knowledgeable people on this topic, my 99.99% is much closer to the truth than 85% - 90%. I don't think it is a good idea to attempt to speak knowledgeably on a topic one is significantly deficient in. One of the forums topics I read commented that there are almost no speakers that dip below 2 ohms impedance. The Scintilla and one other as noticeable exceptions. That is only 2 out of 10's of thousands of speakers. They did not seem overly concerned with phase angle either, noting only that it would come with a loss of potential volume. I understand the math presented, though I may miss a nuance here and there.