https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis9ce07-audioquest-thunder-power-cable-ac-cables
20AMP Thunder for sale here
20AMP Thunder for sale here
Audioquest custom made triple weave design power cable (Storm Series).
Hi everyone,
I am interested in having my own customized Audioquest power cable build based of their new power line Storm series, which can be found here:
https://www.audioquest.com/ac-power/ac-power-cables/storm-series
The reason being the new line is out of my budget AND I am very interested in how a tailor made Audioquest applied with my own ideas will sound.
The idea:
• Use Audioquest NRG 4 cable, which can be bought in bulk: https://www.audioquest.com/ac-power/ac-power-cables/3-pole/nrg-4
• Dissecting the NRG 4 cable into three different wire parts: neutral, live, earth.
• Add multiple layers of shieldings per wire part: carbon fibre, copper braided sleeve, carbon fibre sleeve.
• Twist the three shielded wire parts in a geometry as the new Audioquest cable above, also have a look at:
https://www.lessloss.com/dfpc-series-p-213.html and
http://anticables.com/power-cords#!/Level-3-Reference-Series-Power-Cords/p/14644872/category=3461168
These great performers also use the same triple twisted design.
There must be something good going on with this geometry? That is why I want to apply it.
• Finally add, Oyaide plugs at each end (046, 079 or 004) and fill it with special crystal mineral against vibration, EMI, RFI, see: http://sablonaudio.com/index.php/power
First of all, would the geometry and design help you guys think?
Would it be worthwhile to try?
I can get Audioquest nrg4 relatively cheap. It has to be Audioquest wiring for me.
I am interested in having my own customized Audioquest power cable build based of their new power line Storm series, which can be found here:
https://www.audioquest.com/ac-power/ac-power-cables/storm-series
The reason being the new line is out of my budget AND I am very interested in how a tailor made Audioquest applied with my own ideas will sound.
The idea:
• Use Audioquest NRG 4 cable, which can be bought in bulk: https://www.audioquest.com/ac-power/ac-power-cables/3-pole/nrg-4
• Dissecting the NRG 4 cable into three different wire parts: neutral, live, earth.
• Add multiple layers of shieldings per wire part: carbon fibre, copper braided sleeve, carbon fibre sleeve.
• Twist the three shielded wire parts in a geometry as the new Audioquest cable above, also have a look at:
https://www.lessloss.com/dfpc-series-p-213.html and
http://anticables.com/power-cords#!/Level-3-Reference-Series-Power-Cords/p/14644872/category=3461168
These great performers also use the same triple twisted design.
There must be something good going on with this geometry? That is why I want to apply it.
• Finally add, Oyaide plugs at each end (046, 079 or 004) and fill it with special crystal mineral against vibration, EMI, RFI, see: http://sablonaudio.com/index.php/power
First of all, would the geometry and design help you guys think?
Would it be worthwhile to try?
I can get Audioquest nrg4 relatively cheap. It has to be Audioquest wiring for me.
154 responses Add your response
I just purchased the AQ Thunder PC connected to my preamp and I’m likely what I hear so far. The first thing I noticed is it has a fuller bass than my TWL 7+ PC, second I noticed a blacker background. My ears easily noticed the individual instruments spaced out within the soundstage. Third, there’s a sense of peacefulness in the music. Can someone who has experienced with the Thunder and Tornado, let me know if you perceived a noticeable improvement, whether small or significant and what did you notice that was better? Thank you. |
It is said that only the circuits in the cable that connect the earth (the return) are copper; the others that provide the active side would be silver; it's strange how they did it; on the official Audioquest site now say it's 100% silver; ; when I asked an official dealer why they went to 12 AWG they said it was always the same and there was no change for the Dragon; yet in 2018, 11AWG was written for the Dragon. Now it's 12; it was explained to me that it was a mistake?!?! But it is very true that it is more expensive; Even Nordost increased Walhala prices; They explained that: the price of silver, copper and gold rose; Perhaps prices have risen and may have reduced the surface to 12 AWG; Everything the production price does not grow too much ....! I do not know ; I'm trying to find logical explanations. The way they did this is not even transparent and fair-play. |
So my understanding is that there has actually not been a change in the design of the Dragon but what has changed is how they describe it. The copper is only a small proportion and in the shields and the primary conductors are silver hence the design to now characterize it as 100% PSS and so on. I own Dragond purchased eighteen months ago and this month and even the newest come in a box labeled PSC/PSS so there’s no consistency to it at all |
jafant10,484 posts03-01-2019 7:32pmgeoffkait Manufacturers deal with china to lower costs and increase profits. The Cable businsess is no different. China has been stealing cable/power cord technology, amongst other U.S. technologies, for many years now.Especially important to their gray market operations, luxury cabling, EnKlein/Pranawire/Stage III Concepts/ ...etc. >>>>Never said otherwise. Obviously labor costs in China are much lower. But that doesn’t mean US high end cable companies buy Chinese copper. If you want superior copper from Asia you buy Japanese copper not Chinese. it doesn’t make sense it’s not true. |
geoffkait Manufacturers deal with china to lower costs and increase profits. The Cable businsess is no different. China has been stealing cable/power cord technology, amongst other U.S. technologies, for many years now.Especially important to their gray market operations, luxury cabling, EnKlein/Pranawire/Stage III Concepts/ ...etc. |
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My Paris Dealer told me that there are other people who have asked the same questions on this subject.
I have many Audioquest cables and I was pleased with their quality. Garth did impressive things with power cables. But I would like to know exactly what I buy and what product I give the money. I think every product must be well defined and be a match between the information on the official site and the product box. The authenticity of the product will be without doubt ... Probably the new Dragon power cable is better but we need to know it is really the new Dragon power cable. I hope Audioquest will fix this syncope ...! |
That kind of makes sense. But it would be nice if the advertising copy (online, boxes, price book) was at least consistent and explained the differences ... still as you say who cares as long as it performs. Good news is the 2M source I have looks as if it’s long enough to use in my current install so I’ll be able to see how it compares to my current Galileo LE |
Audioquest Europe has a different approach : The Dragon SOURCE is 16AWG, the Dragon HIGH CURRENT is 12AWG, this is also valid for Tornado, Hurricane and FireBird. There are no new versions of these cables. What might be changing is the way we communicate about the cables and whether or not the percentage of copper for the ground cables should be included. Also the AWG was recalculated and there was a correction for rounding up/of discrepancies. How does it all sound? The more silver is used, the better the current is conducted, so whatever current your amplifier is asking, it is easier transported |
I spoke with a local Parisian dealer who told me it was the same cable but, but is it a change?!?! As a matter of fact, was the same cable with the main silver connections all the time? that some internal copper threads have been changed that would have the role of shielding, and that these wires are not part of the main path through which the current flows ... !!! "Revelation" I did not understand exactly; I can also send you the mail from Audioquest Europe on this subject |
Suppose a local dealer has a Dragon50% cable (original version) in stock, he can put it in a 100% silver dragon box and sell it at a different price (the boxes of Audioquest are not sealed ); because there are no clear differences between the two versions; More to the point I took delivery of (what I assume and was told) is a V2/silver Dragon and it came in a (new design to me) box which was labeled Dragon PSC+/PSS on the outside! My dealer is taking this up with AQ as we speak. BTW at least here in the US few dealers keep these things in stock so the phenomena of reboxing isn't that much of a problem ... the used market however is screwed |
Percentages, I think, are available on the internet,. At least for the Dragon original version; Firebird is said to have 50% less silver than the Dragon; so it's simple (math) ... Suppose a local dealer has a Dragon50% cable (original version) in stock, he can put it in a 100% silver dragon box and sell it at a different price (the boxes of Audioquest are not sealed ); because there are no clear differences between the two versions; Audioquest could do something to authenticate the exact second version and avoid any confusion in this case; There should be a clear distinction on the power cable; move more transparent; for example Firebird is red, blue hurricane; that's what I wanted to say and explain; I sent a mail to Audioquest I hope to do something to improve things; |
The newer Dragon will also have the carbon DBS instead of the black, but as these can be bought separately and swapped after the fact that is not a definitive identifier 🤨 Net net is demand complete paperwork if purchasing used, or work with a reliable dealer ps whee are you getting the information on the copper silver percentages? I’ve never seen that |
I hope it's a transparent presentation; that is, I could buy a 100% Silver Dragon and in fact be a 50% Silver Dragon; so I think it would be good to be authenticated directly and in a transparent way; I am a little disappointed because I was preparing to buy the Dragon Silver power cord 50% (the initial version) and now everything has been changed; I do not have a reference and no review yet to know what I will buy; About Dragon Silver 50% knew and I read many things; en plus I have Firebired that has 25% silver and is probably similar to Dragon; Firebird is Ok; But Dragon Silver 100% I think it is something more than just a change and I can not imagine the sound of the new cable and the sound changes it would make ..... So I'll have to wait for an evaluation ... |
@adi74 a few things to look for 1) The V2 (all silver) is thinner gauge (12 AWG vs 11 AWG for the high current) so should be more flexible -- of course you could only tell if you had them side by side (and for the source cable the gauge stays at 16 AWG) 2) The paperwork included with the cable (a one sheet promo flyer) should state which one it is There are also subtle differences in the logo relating to the font size of the wording but these do not seem to correspond to the design change (i.e. I have a PSC/PSS cable which has the 'newer' larger logo) |
Yes, I'm convinced that Garth is a great master, he proved this with the Storm series .
Bat the new Dragon it
is called the same but it is more expensive ... How can we make a difference between Dragon 50% Silver and Dragon 100% Silver, is there a difference in color, is it written, mentioned as the new version? How can we recognize it and how can we know it is not the old version of Dragon50% silver? |
Good observation; Is it said that pure silver is not always a good solution for power cables?!?! Being the new Dragon an exception? And Firebird is only 25% silver compared to the old Dragon; Is there a big difference between the old Dragon 50% Silver and Firebird 25% Silver? What can you say of a 100% silver power cable? It would be a reinvented version of WEL,
WEL NRG about which Audioquest said it is inferior to Dragon 50% Silver? Who can give a fair answer about the new 100% Dragon power cable; Thanks for the reply
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Seems the story of the AQ Storm series is a little more complex than appears at first glance -- especially at the top of the range Turns out the Dragon PC has been redesigned. V1 of the Dragon HC (per the AQ Price Book Jan 2018) was 11AWG and PSS/PSC+ at $4400/M. The current Dragon HC is 12AWG (i.e. thinner) but PSS only and $5200/M. (per AQ price Book Feb 2019) The place of the old Dragon in the line (i.e. a copper and silver mix) is now taken by Firebird expect the gauge and pricing (and potentially the PSS/PSC+ mix) of Firebird is not the same as the old Dragon Frankly it does not do AQ well to reuse the same name while fundamentally changing the design. I'm sure the Firebird is a great cable and I own the Dragon V1 and like it a lot but now I'm not sure what the heck I'm getting with a Dragon (V2) I just ordered And from comments on this and other threads it doesn't seem as if the dealers have a clue either |
Here it is @jafant, important you have the latest as the prices went up a lot (China tariffs and copper/silver I guess) https://www.audioquest.com/content/aq/pdf/AQ_PB_US-RTL_19-02.pdf |
Guys, AQ now has a new lower cost power conditioner. I have the old style, which is a larger round power strip style. The new one is rectangle to fit on a shelf in a cabinet. I"m thinking of selling mine and getting the 5000 as a step up. The AQ conditioners are as good as any on the market to most folks. I have friends who sell other brands that are outstanding and are using the Niagara's in their own personal systems. Heck, I had the top Synergistic Research Powercell adn sold it for the lower priced Niagara. It's a great device to say the least. The only reason I'm probably going to sell is for the form factor in my set up. |
Thank you, Mulvelimg. This is illuminating. I do not think my Audience AR6-TS power conditioner is current limiting (it is certainly not cheap!), as my Krell FPB 300 cx amp is plugged into it and sounds much better than when plugged directly into the wall. But it is worth checking with Audience, as I find the new AQ Hurricane and Dragon PC's intriguing. Neal |
AQ very strongly recommends using Storm series PC's for any of THEIR power conditioners, which are not current limiting. Or , with other conditioners that have been carefully designed to not limit current. Their point is that the common/typical/cheap current-limiting conditioners would negate any benefit of the Storm cord plugged into the wall. |
If I read the Audioquest website section on the Storm PC’s correctly, they recommend against using them with power conditioners, yet I see that a number of users have them connected to power conditioners. Have I misread AQ’s recommendations or are those users ignoring them? If the former or the latter, please clear me up. Thank you. Neal |