Avalon Eidolon Diamond vs WATT/Puppy 7

I have heard both, albeit briefly.

The WP 7 will give you better bass.
It is not as demanding on electronics.

The Eidolon will give you better soundstaging and imaging.
It requires the best in electronics and powerful amps, as it is very revealing. (Room setup is a little tricky as well.)

Both are amoung the very best, and you probably would not go wrong with either.

My opinions of course.

For classical music, let me also suggest putting the Thiel 7.2 on your list. And with all that extra money, you could send me some or use it to buy better electronics or cables. See my system for details.

Rob

As a Diamond owner, the only thing that the WP7 does better is macrodynamics. In every other attribute, including bass presentation, the Diamond is a better performer as it should be given that its retail price is significantly more. The Diamond, offering more natural transparency, will be more revealing of source components. The WP7 is a more difficult load as measured by the impedence curve. Also because the bass of the Diamond is much more accurate, it can work well in smaller rooms- the WP7 can be overpowering here.

Linkster, I have a question:

Why do you think the WP7 is a more difficult load? Both speakers have a nominal impedance of 4 ohms. (The sensitivity of the WP7 is 93 vs the Eidolon's 87. Wouldn't this mean that you would need 4 times the power to drive the Eidolons, given the same impedence?)

(By the way, I am not arguing with you. I was just wondering why. Personally, I love the Eidolons, as I have a friend with the regular model, and he has the best stereo system setup I have ever heard. (Doesn't hurt that he has a dedicated soundroom, that he built for that specific purspose! They are my current favorite speaker.)

Kurt, two things to consider when assessing drivability are sensitivity and efficiency. Sensitivity is measured in db/1m/1w; but most would argue that efficiency as measured by resistance in ohms (i.e., loading characteristics) is more meaningful. You are absolutely correct in that both speakers present 4 ohm nominal loads but it is more instructive to look at impedence minimums (i.e., dips and where on the frequency spectrum these dips appear). These dips impose huge current delivery requirements on amplifiers. Both the Diamond and Eidolon have 3.6 ohm minimums- not significantly different than their nominal loads. Wilson (at their website) does not publish impedence minimums. Now when was the last time you heard WP owners (and Thiel as another example) using tube power amps successfully. I regard the Eidolon as on the cusp, higher powered tube amps that have decent current capability will work successfully.

I have to say that I've heard the WP 7's sound beautiful driven by a pair of Lamm 18 watt monoblok triodes. Very resolved, nice tonal balance. Lamm has used the Wilsons during the last two CES shows I've been at.

The current WP7's don't drop below 3.6ohm either anywhere in the curve (European Review showed that spec) and are amazingly efficient! Also if you wish to drive them with a tube amp, you just change out the included rear ports as documented in the Wilson manual (which both come standard) if your tube amp doesn't have the higher damping characteristics (not a problem with the Lamm 18watt's though) If you still have too much boom in a small room, have Wilson make up a European spec Wilson for you.

My WP7 are outstandingly efficent and I power them with 100watts (Lamm M1.1) and I am unable to stay in the room at less than half gain of my preamp. Also back when the WP 5.1 first came out I listened to them on a the Bat 60watt tube amps and they had no problem powering the Wilson's. I have heard WP7's on VTL 450 monoblock and the less efficient Sophia with a VTL stereo 150 both without strain. Neither speaker was designed for a 300b 5watts!

So I think unless you have tried it, don't knock it. Listen and then Judge for your self.

Both speakers are amazing, the Avalon's Burl finishes are incredible, but then again the automotive paints and finish quality of Wilson is bar none also.

I considered and listened to the Avalons but have thought Avalon bass was more congested and was missing some of the amazingly piston quick Wilson Bass (I play the upright bass and electric bass) and the only other type of speaker which has been able to acurately produce this were large planars (but then dynamics where serverly sacrificed (Didn't listen to Sound Labs as they wouldn't fit in my house)

Also the WP7's can be moved around a lot easier because the 70lb Watt can be removed from the 110lb Puppy. Try Dragging around the Avalon by yourself. If you have a significant other who will help with position then no problem here, but it was easier for me to have my Excellent Wilson Dealer uncrate and position them for and now I'm just tweaking and getting the room right.

Don't get the Wilson's unless you have addressed everything in you system, if it is harsh or dry the Wilson's will reveal it. If your tube preamp doesn't have bass control, you will hear it. But when you spend the time developing system synergy they are amazing (Electrostic imaging with Dynamics!) Also because of the revealing character I visited 3 Wilson dealers in 3 states before I found the right dealer with the right equipment to make me buy. Now I spend more time listening to music instead of tweaking... If you happen to live in Scottsdale, AZ visit Esoteric Audio for your Wilson qwest, and for the Avalon's get to Boulder Colorado to the factory, but don't bother listening to the Wilson dealer setup in Denver (yuk)

Transparent Cables, Lamm, VTL, Rowland, ARC have all provide good synergy in the best Wilson systems that I have listened to.
Classe, Levinson, Aragon, Macintosh, and Bryston, Audioqwest, or any silver cabling have all been too harsh and brittle to be enjoyable.
These are my opinions, if it works for you then enjoy your setup!

For my tastes, Eidolons play and recreate music while the Wilsons are a very good 'hi-fi' loudspeaker. If you want musicality with great audiophile characteristics (imaging, holograpy) then go with the Avalons.

I am owner of a new avalon diamond. I have replaced my regular eidolons, and I am really astonished of the performance level of this speaker. In my ears there is currently no better speaker on the market; together with the jl2 convergent amp I have unsurpassed level of musical resolution. A big step beyond....the regular eidolon also.