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AVR: Internal 2 CHANNEL AUDIO MODE. OR: HT BYPASS (external equipment for 2 CH Sources)

1. AVR, every one I had includes an AUDIO MODE for 2 CHANNEL which sends ALL signals ONLY to L & R Amps/Speakers. True 2 Channel sources, OR, ’unencode’ or ’down-mix’ surround to 2 Channels (often sounds better). Critically, surround center signal goes equally to L/R. Poorly done surround or cable created pseudo surround is ’put back together’.

or

2. HT BYPASS: separate L/R inputs direct to AVR’s L/R Amps (at full gain). You send volume controlled L/R signals (devices with their own volume control or via a preamp). (I’ve never had one, nor anyone I know).

https://hometheateracademy.com/home-theater-bypass/

In both cases, the AVR L/R amps only are driving the L/R Speakers, thus the amp’s sonic signature is the same. Using ’better’ equipment to feed the same amp?
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Why HT Bypass? Shortage of Inputs?

Blu-Ray players play CD, SACD so that’s already covered.

Aside from everything else, you need 2 remotes if you use HT Bypass (to control 2 Channel Volume).

Pure Signal? Many AVR’s offer ’PURE’ or ’DIRECT’. Many preamps offer tone bypass, i.e. Pure, Direct. Thus the preamp is simply a source selector and volume attenuator.

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IF I wanted ’better’ 2 channel equipment, I certainly would want ’better’ L/R amp(s) (most probably Tubes) so the AVR will be off and a method to get to the L/R speakers is needed.
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And, let’s not forget, the need for VIDEO (creating and maintaining L/C/R Imaging over WIDE multi-person viewing audience) is fundamentally different than AUDIO (refined/precise 2 Channel Imaging for a single listener).

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My contention: a specific speaker solution for WIDE L/C/R imaging for Home Theater, and try/use the AVR’s 2 Channel MODE for 2 channel source and force 2 channel to see if a surround source might sound better (often does). Simple Mode button, same volume, single remote.

2 Channel Music: a separate speaker type, thus a separate system.

I’ve always had a dedicated PC (even prior to HDMI) as an optional source for my HT, that’s my streamer and full net access, You Tube, Netflix, Prime etc. is on Smart TV’s now, but not in the old days. Even then, PC the source, I often find trying the AVR’s 2 Channel Mode sounds better. Audio and Video on the motherboard, no fan noise of dedicated video card.




elliottbnewcombjr
soix
10,178 posts
 
HT Bypass is a DIRECT INPUT to the AVR Front L & Front R AMPS.

Several sources, thru your ’best in the world’ Preamp, still go to the AVR’s L/R amps thus the AVR is still driving the speakers, the preamp a switcher with volume control.
I think we have a fundamental misunderstanding of what is meant by HT bypass vs. a “Pure Direct” mode of an AVR. HT bypass as it’s most commonly used here is an input on the stereo preamp, not the AVR — that would obviate the whole point of a “bypass.” The whole idea of the HT bypass is to do just that — have your higher-end sources completely bypass the AVR. Once they enter the AVR in any fashion, any higher-quality audio signal is effectively ruined. Specifically, the front L/R preouts from the AVR get routed into the stereo preamp’s (or integrated’s) HT Bypass input along with all other critical 2-channel sources connected to other line inputs thus “bypassing” the AVR while the stereo pre allows the AVR’s front channels to pass through it unaffected by and independent of the preamp’s volume control. Hopefully this helps put things in a clearer perspective.
Post removed 
elliottbnewcombjr OP
5,864 posts
 
soix

Well I’ll Eat My Hat,

You are correct, I misread the link.

Wrong: I thought the AVR had the HT Bypass Input (wrong), to convert itself into a simple 2 channel amp, skipping all of it’s processing and deactivating all of it’s speaker outputs except it’s Front L & R. Wouldn't that be a decent budget solution?

I think this is Correct:

It requires both an AVR for HT Surround Sound AND a separate 2 Channel Integrated Amp with HT Bypass feature.

The HT AVR needs FRONT L & R Pre-Out.

HT Bypass is an INPUT on a separate 2 channel Preamp or separate 2 channel Integrated Amp.

here’s a list of ones with that feature I found

http://audiophile.no/en/articles-tests-reviews/item/426-amplifiers-with-processor-input

found here

https://www.avsforum.com/threads/ht-bypass-input-a-list-of-integrated-amplifiers-and-preamplifiers-that-have-one.3127374/

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Kindly explain what/how the front speakers are wired/powered.

It’s still a case of two amps to one set of front speakers isn’t it?

How does surround sound front l and front r get to the speakers; how does 2 channel music front l & front r get to the speakers.

In each case, what amps are powering the front speakers?

I think both systems must be on and the separate 2 Channel Integrated always powers the front speakers. No front l or r speaker wires from the AVR. Thus the integrated sends any 2 channel source to the front, or it sends the Surround Sound front signals via HT Bypass (should be called HT Front IN IMO).

Yes?

This presumes 2 separate systems, not for the budget minded.



soix
10,178 posts
 
Hey Elliott, I know this is tough to grasp at first as it seems almost too good to be true, but it exists and allows us audiophiles with only one room to seamlessly blend HT and stereo systems into one and switch between them with only the push of one button (assuming you have a HT bypass input, although any unused line input on the stereo pre will work, but let’s save that for another day). And when playing critical 2-channel sources the AVR is COMPLETELY out of the signal path. Seems impossible to accomplish without having some form of extra switch or speaker cables involved, but here we are.
It’s still a case of two amps to one set of front speakers isn’t it?
No! That’d be a complete mess.
This presumes 2 separate systems, not for the budget minded.
No!!  The only thing you need to add for this to work is a stereo integrated and a pair of interconnects, and as everything is connected together I still consider this technically to be one “system” — or, maybe more accurately, a “system within a system.”  So, in my opinion this IS for the budget minded because you’re basically getting two separate systems just by adding one component (or two if you go for stereo separates).
I think both systems must be on and the separate 2 Channel Integrated always powers the front speakers. No front l or r speaker wires from the AVR. Thus the integrated sends any 2 channel source to the front
Yes!!! Ding Ding Ding (although the AVR doesn’t need to be powered on when listening in stereo). Only the stereo amp/integrated is connected to the front L/R speakers, so by connecting the L/R preouts from the AVR to the stereo pre you’re allowing the stereo pre to simply pass through the L/R signal from the AVR (when the HT Bypass input is selected on the stereo pre) that is still completely controlled by the AVR’s volume control. Everything else from the AVR remains connected and works as it was/did before. It’s deceptively simple, but it works beautifully and many among us lived very happily like this before acquiring dedicated listening rooms. Anyway, hope this is a little clearer but definitely ask away if I missed anything.
elliottbnewcombjr OP
5,864 posts
 
soix,

You were kind when I got it backwards, thanks for that. I assumed the AVR would be in control, that was my error. It's completely unaware of what's happening here.

So you start with a Stereo System, and use it for the AVR's Front Signals. I'm calling it a 'Front Stereo System'.

Thus, the WHOLE POINT of it: all FRONT content is ALWAYS thru the 'FRONT STEREO SYSTEM'.

1. AVR MUST have Front L & Front R Pre-Outs (to the separate front stereo system's HT Bypass L & R inputs).

2. no speaker wires from AVR to front speakers.

3. AVR speaker wires to the Center and Surround Speakers which are only ON in Surround Mode.

4.  'FRONT Stereo System' (integrated amp or preamp/amp combo) ALWAYS what drives the Front L and Front R speakers, via it's speaker wires. (not front center, that is driven by the AVR).

either:

a. AVR OFF: 2 Channel Music (any source) thru the 'Front Stereo System'

or:

b. AVR ON: AVR's Front Signals' to/thru the 'Front Stereo System' as part of the AVR's Audio Output (any AVR Mode: 5.1/7.1 ... Surround; Direct; 2 Channel; even forced 2 channel as I often do ...).

5. Modern equipment has 'HT BYPASS' for this specific purpose

HT Bypass uses the front system amp's full gain, thus the volume must be controlled before it enters, as it would be by the AVR volume control. Relative Balance of AVR front signals to other surround channels, once set, is maintained by the AVR, unchanged by the 'Front System'.

6. Older Stereo Systems without HT Bypass can be used this way, however the coordination of the front volume can be tricky.

i.e. My Cayin Integrated has an input labeled 'Pre-In'. It works exactly like 'HT Bypass', it sends whatever it gets via that input directly to it's L & R amps, the volume is controlled by whatever is connected. It's design is to skip it's selector and volume circuits. Works for either my McIntosh mx110z preamp, or, any AVR Front signals.

i.e. An old amp, without any kind of bypass: you can use any line level input:

BUT now there is the problem of volume integration when using the AVR.

I suppose some pencil marks could be established, coordinate 'normal' on both the AVR and the amp's volume controls, then the AVR volume would control 'more' or 'less' from that pre-coordinated start.





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