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Back to the drawing board

I hate to start this again. I really had my heart set on 2 svs sb3000. But know after careful listening or maybe this time around I realized what was happening.  So I went to best buy just to re evaluate my decision and noticed I did not like what I was hearing.  Thus time around I had a couple of hours and has my significant other with me, oh no what we heard totally ruined our previous thoughts.  In one room I listened to the rel t9i and the svs sb2000.  The svs had the out put but not the detail and it really hurt the mid range and uppers. Lower base was not full or detailed. Now the rel, wow it just blended really nice and was full, detailed and just sounded right. I'm thinking to myself this can't be right. So off to the other room, svs sb 4000, 16 ultra and the rel s5. Now again the svs has the output or pressure. But the s5 totally beats both of them on detail, disappearing,  tight,  full and more sound stage. I went back and forth between these 2 rooms, playing the same 2 tracks I have always demo with. I know my ears would not lie. So now unfortunately I am reading again. I am considering 2 t9i or 1 s3.  I think I will also demo the JL e110 and paradigm defiance x12.  Wish I could demo a rymthik,  but don't know any places to demo. I will make the trip and one place has the JL and rel. 5 miles further down I can demo the x12.  I now know the sound I want and unfortunately it's not svs with its great price and impressive output. I'm sure the subs are great, but not what me and the ms want in our system.  Has anyone demo JL and rel side by side?  I love the rel sound, is paradigm or rymthik as tight as rel. I've never listened to JL.  I guess a road trip is due. Room is 8ft ceiling 14x24, hardwood floors. Thanks for any help you can give. Pete
pcc67
jbhiller's avatar
jbhiller
1,437 posts
 
I bought a REL T9i just a couple weeks ago. I cannot comment on SVS or  paradigm or rymthik.  I didn't audition any others than REL--full disclaimer.  But I do have a small Sumiko (similar to REL).  

So, we must keep in mind that I've only heard half the equation here.  

I would think, on one hand, that the others are right about setup.  Setup is trick or can be.  I've had mixed experiences at Magnolia/Best Buy too--some good, some not. 

The exact things you state about the differences between what you heard with REL v. SVS is the reason I tried an REL.  I was super concerned about booming output.  I wanted a sub-bass system to pressurize the room and tune it.  I have no idea what SVS sounds like. I can only say the REL was worth every penny. 

One final thing.  I bought a $50/60 Auralex Subdude II platform to fit under the REL T9i.  I put it in place after a week or so of having the REL in the system.  I had to restart the tuning/setup of the REL completely.  It was worth it.   Without the Auralex I had the crossover set at about 8:30/9:00 and volume there or a touch lower.  With the Auralex I have both in the neighborhood (after tuning) of 10:00 o'clock.  The output is more cohesive, tighter, and it's clearly not using the suspended hardwood floor to multiply the low bass as it was before. 

Can you do an in-home demo?  Audioadvisor and Music Direct allow it and carry REL.  

erik_squires
16,173 posts
 
It's a shame this is so hard. The biggest issues in my mind with subs are getting the EQ right. Below 100 Hz are where the monsters of audio are. Smaller subs avoid this just because they are smaller subs.

Lots of subs built-in auto-EQ / room correction kind of suck.

The biggest audible differences in subs is the room EQ. When you eval a sub, make sure you eval the auto-eq features, OR you work with an installer who can set it up properly.

JL Audio makes the best sounding auto-EQ I know of in a sub, but it's expensive as all get out, and I've read plenty of reliability issues.

For ~ $1,000 you can have most of the performance with a Hsu sub and mini DSP but the integration is where things are different.

Also, room acoustics matter. Contact GIK first. Get an assessment and recommendation for your room, especially around bass traps.

To be clear, first get good room treatment. Then settle on a pair of good output, high quality subs. Third, get the EQ for the sub done right.

Best,

E
erik_squires
16,173 posts
 
Also, sometimes after getting good room treatment you may want a sub less. This can really open up the sound and make the bass feel much deeper.
stevecham
3,340 posts
 
But why go to best buy???

Order them directly from SVS and enjoy their full money returned trial offer. That way you can play with them in your system, relax and not feel pressured to make a decision.
erik_squires
16,173 posts
 
I don’t know if people realize just how BAD room modes below 100 Hz can be.
I’ve measured +- 20 dB in extremely narrow bands. That’s about 100x the power output. With output variations like this it is impossible to get the bass to integrate with the rest of the system.

You either set the bass level too low, giving you no benefit, or set it too high and get overwhelmed by the ringing notes.


a - Treat the room

b - Add EQ to clip those peaks, and enhance the nulls where possible.

Preferably a mix of both, but in that order. If you cannot treat, EQ can still be very helpful.
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