Berning ZH270 vs 845 SET amp


After reading a recent review on Enjoy the Music.com of the Berning ZH270 amp I got the opinion that maybe it was a good substitute for a powerful SET amp. Not having heard or able to hear the Berning amp I wondered what Agoner's thoughts were.
I struggle with the thought of buying a 845 SET in that ultimately I will be disappointed by the typical SET short comings. The Berning amp still being a P/P yet OTL makes me wonder if it could be the best of both worlds.
Your thoughts are appreciated.
Thanks
Mike
128x128brm1
Hi mike,
I think the big question you need to ask yourself is "what is the tube sound I like, or want?" This meaning there are pretty much two different tube camps. One camp is what I would call traditional tube sound(please understand I am not saying one is right, or wrong. Strictly a matter of taste) traditionalists being your s.e.t. lovers. This typically renders a very romantic sound some will also say warm, tonally rich, full bodied, and emotional. Emphasis is more prominent in the midrange, with the frequency extremes usually lacking a little in ultimate detail, and accuracy. Please understand this is a generalization of products typically falling in the traditionalist category. There are I'm sure exceptions.
You then have what I would call the non traditionalist camp. This is to say that they prefer the transparency, speed, and immediacy that tubes can provide but also are looking for a more linear sound. What gets confused between these two camps are what "their" definitions of audio adjectives mean. Traditionalist will find the Berning lacking emotion, tonal richness, some what aggressive and so on. Non traditionalist will say the contrary. who's right? everybody. Because what the Berning sounds like, or doesn't sound like, in relation to their preferences is very different. I can tell you I fall in the non traditionalist, and have owned a Berning for over 7 years. I have heard many, many amps and none do for me what the 270 does. It IS brutally honest. One of your concerns is that the 270 may be lifeless, or lacking emotion. For me that is the exact opposite of how I interpret the Berning. But my definitions of what it means I am sure is very different from a traditionalist view point is. So depending on where you fall in you preferences ultimately determines if the Berning is you cup of tea. As for running it like an integrated, I have run it this way for years. I have also run it with a preamp. this really depends on quality of upstream components if you have a very good source and an ok preamp you might then run it without the pre. As people have said almost unanimously, it is BRUTALLY honest and if upstream is not on par, you will know it. Hope this helps. Good luck.
Kris
OK, time for a clarification. I said "a bit" flat. Not a lot. These are minor points and I think for most would be overweighed by the characteristics of the rest of the system. I have changed pre-amps, conditioners and cables since I had the Berning. If you are buying used, you can almost certainly re-sell a ZH-270 here for what you paid for it, unless you get into a bidding war. So give it a try if you think that the basic sonic signature of your system does not require tilting towards the fuller side.
I've never had an 845-based SET, but I have had a Wavac 1610, apparently not their most popular amp ever, but it fits the bill for a 'high-powered SET'. I am well aware, though that 845's sound different than 300b's, etc., so not sure how valid the generalization from my experience to other SET's is. Anyhow, I kept my Berning and sold the Wavac. I just could not tolerate the bass from the Wavac, it was too loose, bloated, boomy. Also the highs seemed to be way too rolled off, maybe not the right word but close.
I did no like the sound of the Berning going straight into my Sony SCD-1 near as much as I do with my Supratek Cortese preamp. The Berning and the Supratek make for a perfect pair in my system. Both are very musical with great transparency and resolution.
I would like to thank all of you for your responses. They are all unique and helpful in their own ways. Kris yours being very well written.
My source is a Cary 306 SACD and I think it is as good as anything under $12000.00., but as anyone can read on this site, there are many opinions that differ from that, same as my amp question. So for me to expect some concensus is not really very realistic... but fun to try.
One final question, if I were to get the Berning is it going to be so "honest" that I ultimately will be spending more $$$ "fixing" my system. Or is it going to make some of my favorite, yet poorly recorded cd's unlistenable? I had an expensive VTL system like that once and DON'T want to end up there again!!!
Mike