Berning ZH270 vs 845 SET amp

I would like to thank all of you for your responses. They are all unique and helpful in their own ways. Kris yours being very well written.
My source is a Cary 306 SACD and I think it is as good as anything under $12000.00., but as anyone can read on this site, there are many opinions that differ from that, same as my amp question. So for me to expect some concensus is not really very realistic... but fun to try.
One final question, if I were to get the Berning is it going to be so "honest" that I ultimately will be spending more $$$ "fixing" my system. Or is it going to make some of my favorite, yet poorly recorded cd's unlistenable? I had an expensive VTL system like that once and DON'T want to end up there again!!!
Mike

Well Mike, that may be a possibility. You could play it safe and go the SET route. Another option with those Coincidents is consideration of another OTL like Joule or Atma-sphere. Not a thing wrong with those amps. Great top to bottom frequency extension but they are about as hot as a sauna in a small space. The Joule is as Swampwalker notes, richer, more apparent harmonic texture but I'm not too sure it is as accurate but it is very seductive. What is more important to you seductive or accurate? Then again accurate can be mighty seductive when all is right. You probably just need to listen to some of these amps first hand to be sure. As noted above, if you picked up a used Berning with all the toys you would have little difficulty selling it at close or equal to what you paid. They are rather rare amps but they do become available.

My experience has been that it isn't the Bernings that make poorly recorded Cd's sound unlistenable. I say that because I've had Bernings through many iterations of IC's, speaker cables, preamps, and speakers. I also have many poorly recorded CD's, since I play guitar and listen to a lot of rock music. The only constant in my system has been the 270's. If it was the Bernings, then the CD's should be consistently unlistenable, and they aren't. Currently, many CD's that I used to just skip because they were unlistenable don't sound too bad; not audiophile quality, but not so bad that I run from the room with my ears covered like I used to.

Hi Mike,
I think your concerns about the Berning too honest are valid, and given many of the strong statements to that end I too might be concerned. Let me say this though. If you were to read many of the posts concerning the 270 the VAST majority of people who have heard, or own a 270 have found the honesty to be more of a revelation than a curse. There are many people who have struggled with the same concerns regarding taking the plunge on a 270. Most have been more than a little overwhelmed at its performace once they recieve it. It really is an amazing piece. With regard to poorly recorded material, it will not be polite, but I would not say unlistenable. You will just be that much more aware of its short comings. If a cd is harsh and bright, it will sound harsh and bright through the 270. Plain and simple, what goes in, comes out.

Kris

There is one thought I would like to add to this discussion and it is the primary reason I own the zh270. What is your objective? When I first got into this hobby over 20 years ago it was to improve my system so that classical music and accoustical music in general sounded more like what I hear at a live performance. This has lead me down numerous dead ends and some temporary satisfaction but like most audiophiles there never seems to be a final place of "I've arrived"

The point I am trying to make is that the Berning is that rare product that has the foundation to get one to that place, poor recordings aside. I have heard it first hand, not in my system but it is capable of reproducing music as you might hear it live. So in my very strong opinion the Berning is a rare product in that respect. No it doesn't sugar coat, it may be brutally honest as some have suggested but it is nothing less than anything it will be matched with in my experience. I find it one of the few products I have come across that is just intrinsically right and this becomes more apparent the longer I own it and the more systems I have heard it in. It is a very elegant efficient design with few if any peers with the level of absolute performance it is capable of along with the built in reliability. It is evenhanded across the frequency spectrum. I have not heard nor has anyone that has listened to this amp commented on an aggressive upper midrange. This is not characteristic of the amp although I have no doubt that Peter and his listening group heard this or perceived this based on other issues. This is the cavaet, the other components the most important being cabling and software in my experience. I have found this amp to work very well with a host of different speakers from Legacy, Montana, Sonus Faber, Quads, Merlin and most memorably with Verity Parsifals. In all cases the amp performed extremely well. You can't get a clear idea of what to really expect until you listen. At the end of the day it may prove that the Berning is not for you but you really can't take anyone's word for this. The excitement that many feel concerning this amp is real and valid for them although it certainly isn't for everyone. What audio product is or ever was? We all have different goals and prioriites.

PS Everyone on this thread should hear Vettrone's new amps. Congragulations Steve, I have heard many fine things about those amps, sure would love to hear your system!