Cables more hype than value?

But not for long....

Oftentimes, when trying to understand a posters point of view, I find value in looking for patterns in a poster's over-all posting history. As with most things, not just audio, I like to read between the lines. This approach is hardly "scientific" and not applicable in all cases; but still, it can tell me a lot about a poster's priorities and viewpoint.

I have been trying very hard to understand Irv's stubbornness re the position of the overwhelming majority of posters in this thread on the subject of cables. While his stance is fairly clear, there are also some inconsistencies and a convenient "out" when he leans on the idea that his premise is based on the "fact" that cables that are "properly designed for a given application" will sound the same. But, I don't want to revisit all that. In looking at his posting history, I notice two significant things. For me, one in particular speakes volumes about where a person's head is at.

-This is far from Irv's only thread where he has taken the minority position of trying to debunk others' opinions about the audibility of differences in cables, and tweaks in general.

- Even more importantly (for me) is that unlike the posting history of the overwhelming majority of other contributors to this discussion, he has not made a single contribution nor comment on the subject of music; not a one.

Draw your own conclusions.

No doubt for me cables can and often do sound different. But not always. No rule says they will or must. I think there are probably ways to quantify how they might in electrical terms to back it up. Almarg, an experienced EE with an interest, is the best I have seen here at doing that based on principles of EE.

IS there a scientific study that supports this? Maybe but I have not seen one. Still the theory is consistent with what I hear so I can accept it.

Also no doubt that vendors hype their products based on the supposed "fact" that wires CAN sound different. Each has their own science or pseudo-science or perhaps "fantasy" to explain how their unique "innovation" works. Some are more plausible, some are less.

In the end, when one is able to predict resulting sound based on its design, and the predictions can be statistically or mathematically demonstrated as being better than if done randomly, we will have something to sink our teeth into. We could have a long wit though. Meanwhile, may the better ears win.

Oftentimes, when trying to understand a posters point of view, I find value in looking for patterns in a poster's over-all posting history. As with most things, not just audio, I like to read between the lines. This approach is hardly "scientific" and not applicable in all cases; but still, it can tell me a lot about a poster's priorities and viewpoint.

I have been trying very hard to understand Irv's stubbornness re the position of the overwhelming majority of posters in this thread on the subject of cables. While his stance is fairly clear, there are also some inconsistencies and a convenient "out" when he leans on the idea that his premise is based on the "fact" that cables that are "properly designed for a given application" will sound the same. But, I don't want to revisit all that. In looking at his posting history, I notice two significant things. For me, one in particular speakes volumes about where a person's head is at.

-This is far from Irv's only thread where he has taken the minority position of trying to debunk others' opinions about the audibility of differences in cables, and tweaks in general.

- Even more importantly (for me) is that unlike the posting history of the overwhelming majority of other contributors to this discussion, he has not made a single contribution nor comment on the subject of music; not a one.

Draw your own conclusions.

My stubbornness? If I were in a room full of creationists, who argued that evolution was incorrect and had holes it, and couldn't explain everything, would you expect me to bend to the opinion of the majority and surrender my position? I hope not. This discussion is very similar to my example; I feel like I'm in a room full of creationists.

The part about me not posting about music is irrelevant in a cable forum, sort of like bringing up that I've not posted on spiritual matters in a discussion about creationism.

As for my motivations, Frogman, I can make things absolutely clear for you, there's no guessing required. I find this whole cable controversy to be a pox on a hobby I've been involved with for decades, and every so often I entertain myself and break the monotony of whatever I'm working on by putting up the objective point of view and letting the dogs bark, so to speak. I find argument fun, and apparently so do many of you, because you're here arguing with me, and bringing popcorn.

Hi Irv, actually, I am not arguing. Arguing, discussing; whatever. I truly am trying to understand the other side of the argument; which, frankly, I don't see a lot of evidence of on your part. But, for the record, my reference to posting history was for ALL posting history. Yes, this thread is about cables, but this forum is about much more than cables; including music. See, from my vantage point it is almost impossible (pointless) to discuss any aspect of this hobby without, at least, some reference to music. I think that this is the core difference between the two mind-sets.

BTW, the offer/challenge that I made to Rok earlier is to you as well; if interested. Might be fun, and at the very least some good music will be listened to.

I, like some here, just like the banter. It's amusing to see how far a person will go to make an illogical argument.
However at the end of the day, the 10,000 pound gorilla stills sits in the middle of the room!

THE MILLION DOLLAR PRIZE!! Just demostrate you can hear wire! That is almost TOO easy. Hell, I wish I could hear wire. I'd be cruising in my 911 Turbo this minute. But I guess you wire folks just don't wanna take advantage of the poor misguided soul.

BTW, just curious. Can any of you Ferengi(stng) hear the differences between two brands of 'mere mortal' wire? Say, monster and blue jeans?

And also, why do you say 'different' instead of 'better.' Don't you buy wire to improve your sound?

Cheers