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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
rchau
43 posts
 
Volleyguy

I did some more poking.

It looks like the crossover for the La Scalas do not have any resistors but a large number of oil caps.

It also appears that 5 different Klipsch crossovers have been used ranging from the original A crossover to the newer AL-3 crossover. There is also a popular aftermarket crossover, the ALK. People seem to think the AL-3 and the ALK are the best.

It might be worth calling Klipsch and see what they say.

My reservation about just putting in the Mundorfs is that you really have no way of telling what the end result will be. I have a dealer friend who sold a Mastersound amp and the customer wanted the caps upgraded. We ended up putting in the Mundorfs because they were the only caps with the right ratings and the right size. The sound changed dramatically. I certainly did not like the new sound. I found the sound too tilted towards the top end. Of course, the changes are relative and subjective and everyone will have a different opinion. And that's the problem.

Also, just because a cap is an oil cap doesn't mean they all sound the same or have a certain magic. In one preamp I built, I swapped out several kinds of oil caps and they ranged from bright to utter warm and slowness.

BTW-before you do anything go measure the resistance across each driver, especially the tweeters. Make sure the values are nominal or at least close to spec.
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Rchau I think most would say the original A network that Paul Klipsch himself designed would be the best or the AA. The AA came out at the time of SS with added tweeter protection. The new crossovers seem to be hit and miss.

The interesting part is Klipsch is no longer a high end company. They are more mass market or mid fi.

They do not even stock replacement parts and send you to the aftermarket guys.

You are 100% right on new caps. I wish I could just get the old ones again or else I am gambling. The does concern me what you said about the Mundorf's. Klipsch Lascala do not need a tilt to the upper end.

Tweeters are 6.4 and 6.7 ohm
Mid's are 10.8 and 10.6
Woofers are 3.9 both

I am unsure if that is normal spec but I do think it close.
rchau
43 posts
 
Your measurements don't seem out of the ordinary. It would be a problem if one tweeter was at 6 ohms and another at 30 ohms.

The AA is the most popular crossover. It is hard to replicate the exact sound without using vintage parts. It is possible to find vintage replacements but it will be a pain. You'll have to hit e-bay and swap meets.

Don't give up. You seem to very passionate about Klipsch and you have had these speakers for a long time.

As for the Mundorfs, my impression was based on the one case. However, I find that a tilted up sound is popular these days since it gives a sense of detail. So what works for people used to modern speakers may not be for you.

There are other oil cap choices. The Jensen/Audio Note caps in my experience are a lot warmer (too warm for me). Also, you could try some ASC oil caps.

It may be worth talking to guys who make the ALK crossover. http://www.alkeng.com/klipsch.html.
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Rctau thanks for the help. I have talked to Al on the phone. I am trying to keep as close as possible to original or better of course. I never would have thought that to be a tough thing. I will have to wait to see but have the feeling a plastic cap cannot sound like an original film in oil. That Mundorf tilt does concern me. I do have modern speakers as well. JohnK just says get modern horns. He may be right.
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Rchau I did hear that the Mundorf's (oils) were about 2 or 3 db hotter. That would make sense to me as the old oil caps are hotter as well. I sure have gained an appreciation for speaker tuning. I was thinking last night and thought I might just start buying single caps and start doing the tuning myself on one speaker. This might be more cost effective. Might just get the board built with room and run jumpers onto caps try a few kinds on one speaker then have the right ones solder in. Sell off (for what I can get) the ones I do not like. That way I am not buying full sets for two speakers. Mundorf oils are over $600 for both. But a tweeter and see is not to bad? Some vintage oil caps are cheap anyway.
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