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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
The Mundorf Supreme and Mundorf Silver in Oil and Duelund caps are in should be a fun weekend. The Mundorf Supreme is even much larger then the Sonicaps. (over twice as large) The Mundorf Silver in Oil is huge! The size is at 2.2uf is larger then the Sonicaps at 13uf. The are many many times bigger than the 2uf Sonicaps. When you hold one up to the other the Sonicaps look like toys! The Duelunds are shockingly heavy! My goodness they even make the originals seem lightweight by comparison. The Mundorf Silver in Oil by size and volume of cap is close to original oil filled caps.

I do not know what this means but will have an idea this weekend but at least for all that money both the Mundorf Silver in Oil and the Duelund's do NOT look like toys.

Can't wait to hear the difference?!
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
I have one Sonicap and the Mundorf Supreme in one speaker. I can not say anything yet as I do not know if there is or even should be any improvement or change from the 2 Sonicaps. I am expecting to hear more difference when the Silver in Oil is added in and will be two Mundorf's together.

From here down is about the Sonicaps only. This was before the Mundorf was installed.

I did write down impressions on a Nirvana Nevermind CD. (I know what you guys are thinking)(not normally what I listen to either)

There is a rawness to Cobains voice that when put through the Sonicaps was sterilized. On the vintage oil caps
1. There was a mid bass drone. Highs dead. But again a raw rauncy realism to Kurt's voice.

On the Sonicaps reverb not there. They sound cheap. Kurt is very distant with a not there feel. Controlled and sterilized.

I always found this album to be sad in that it never come across right on CD. I have always been going to buy the vinyl and did once but kept coming through warped.
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
First hour impression of the (one) Mundorf Supreme is good. Seems to be more dynamic. Voices already sound more real than just Sonicaps. There is some sssss though. I am almost sure Mundorf's are a louder cap than Sonicaps. The Mundorf's are going to be in better balance for sure. The Sonicaps are far to quiet compared to the original. Almost like going through a filter. The Mundrorf Supreme has MUCH more energy than Sonicaps. As I undertand caps they are like batteries and the voluume (size) in the Mundorf Supreme is likely 30x and the Mundorf Silver in Oil at least 50x. The leads on the Mundorf are at least twice as thick.

I am hearing the drone on the old caps more and more in comparison.
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Enough of just hearing one Mundorf I will be installing the Silver in Oil in just a few minutes. When it was two Sonicaps the volume was much lower in the Sonicaps over vintage oils. With one Mundorf it is much closer but still louder in the vintage.

Just installed the Mundorf Silver in Oil and Mundorf Supreme.
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
First 10 minutes of Silver in Oil. They are brighter than Supremes. The filter of the Sonicaps is removed. The Silver tilt the emphasis upwards. Maybe beyond what I am used too? I do not find they hurt the bass though?? as I have read? They just seem to emphasize the cymbals. It seems somewhat unnatural too. It sounds like they can go higher and it is like they want to show you how high they can go? So far I would lean towards the Supreme's. In this eval I am paying no (or not much) attention to cost. Even with all of that the Supreme's may be the way for me to go. I remember talking to B&W about the Nautilus (new ones) and they said they went with the Suprememe's and I thought it was a cost thing. (like they should worry about that on a speaker that cost that much) I think I can see why they went with Supremes.

I just put in a audiophile CD. The Nirvana is poorly recorded and I just want to see if on a better CD it was the same.

The Audiophile Cd does not make me feel like there is too much emphasis on the highs. So I take that to mean you may not want Silver in Oil if you listen to poorly recorded music. Maybe Silver in Oil is more revealing of the upstream.

This is easily a combination I could live with. Still not better than vintage caps in every way but better in some ways and the downside is less.

Maybe after break in they will be better in every way. I hope this helps people as well in the future who are looking to do this not just Klipsch guys. But the Mundorfs can match the vintage in dynamics.

I will do the wife test again sometime in the future after break-in. (last time she can down to say Wow those new caps are wayyyy better but she was pointing to the speaker with all the old ones in it!)

You can pick out instruments much better in the new caps and they are faster, quieter and do have good dynamics.

They do not yet give you more realism. The old Klipsch (oil) caps are very good at that. So if you own old Klipsch unless your caps are defective you are not going to upgrade them cheaply.

One thing I will say about the Mundorfs they do make you want to listen more which is the biggest thing to me.
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