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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Put the Duelund VSF's into the tweeter caps (which is all there is) into the Heresy's.

I am not intending to buy them for the Heresy's. (yet) Just want to see if they make the same kind of difference. It might be something someone would consider if they like Klipsch sound and did not have room for the big Lascala's Belle's or Khorns. The caps are worth more than the speakers!

Well I was right with the Lascala's the Duelund have do the same thing in the Heresy's.

Not just the highs are smoother the white noise is eliminated and mids are smoother. A huge improvement albeit at a cost many might not want to spend on a set of Heresy's.

I just wanted to know if I thought it was worth it in a set of cheaper speakers. The Heresy's to me are like Cornwalls too slow in the bass. This is for me as I know some like Cornwalls over Lascala's and Khorns. Too me the big horn driven woofer speakers are wayyyyy better and much faster in the bass. Some say they can't bass out of the horn type. I think they miss the boom. Would I spend the money on the Heresy's on Duelund. Hmmm part is maintance and foil in oil originals are Ok for midrange but in the high freq the Duelund tight tolerance is MUCH better. To me Duelund is a slam dunk in the tweeter caps. Better than the vintage ever was by a mile and for good reason!
danmyers
135 posts
 
I can't believe I read the whole thing! OK, I skipped over some of Volley's ramblings, (who hasn't?) and I have these comments:

1) I still don't care for most Beatles songs
2) There are some great cap comparison links here - thanks
3) Volleyguy you:
a. are crazy stubborn
b. completely ignore really, really good input & advice
c. infer cause/effect where none exists, and then
d. make broad unfounded generalizations
4) I have enjoyed reading (almost) every word! Thanks again.

I too am stubborn, but finally gave up and bought new speakers. First though I built my own from scratch (took a year), tweaked them for another year after that. When I couldn't match, much less exceed, the sound of my existing KEF 104/2s, I thought seriously about rebuilding them (the KEFs that is). By then I'd had enough tinkering and thrown away enough money that I bought some new Gallo Ref 3.1s. I am very happy with these unique speakers (not pushing them - they are NOT for horn guys).

Volley - God bless you and I sure hope you find what you are searching for. Your love and passion for these speakers is commendable and it seems your quest will end successfully. I am now back to just enjoying my music collection. Hope you will get to this place again soon as it's very peaceful here. In the meantime, I am enjoying following your journey and at times seeing more of me in you than I'd like to admit. Passion about the intangible and indescribable does that to us all.

Dan

PS Do you think I should replace the caps in my new speakers with Duelund CAST? .... just kidding :)

volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Danmyers

A Crazy Stubborn. Yes maybe! My Local high-end dealer used to tease me about the big Klipsch all the time. I would have all new gear and they would laugh over the speakers.

b I will always take the advice but as anyone should do in audio use your own ears.

c infer cause and effect that one I would like you to clarify. Not sure what you mean? My rants on plastic caps?
I am Ok with being crazy but would like to talk about this one.

d broad unfound generalizations is like the c comment please be specific.

Danmyers you never heard me say building speakers was easy. After doing a crossover rebuild I have gained new respect for speaker builders. You will get NO arguement from me that tweaking your own speakers can be expensive! If I could buy new speakers with Duelund in them at a price I could afford I would.

Dan I am very much looking to get back to a peaceful enjoyment of music. I waiting to get back from the tech guy a EL84 amp and will fix up my x-101d fisher (professional series) and be done. The x101d is MUCH better than the 500c. (at least the one I have)

Dan I may be crazy that is always hard to tell but my dealer who has snickered over the big Klipsch and tried to sell me all these other speakers over the years of which not one single one is on Arthur Salvatore's list. So I could have dumped a ton of $.

I have also sold all of my gear and used caps based on what I found out and to NO regrets. So I may be crazy but at least I believe in Steen's foil caps if that's what you mean? This was something I do not do as I am not a gear changer.
danmyers
135 posts
 
You are certainly crazy stubborn, but that is not necessarily a bad thing :) I have great respect for your quest to restore the sound of the horns you clearly love. It's an achievable goal and you are almost there. Congrats!

In retrospect, I should have done the same the same thing with my KEFs. Instead I set out to build new speakers that ended up being very good, but not knock your socks off great. Clearly my goal, to build better speakers than a classic KEF line was ridiculous and not achievable. So you're already way ahead of me.

You are right that even high-end speakers use cheap crossover parts. That had a lot to do with the speakers I built, and also the ones I eventually purchased to replace the KEFs. The Gallos have no cross-over for the tweeter! The mid has a single cap and the woofer a single inductor. I figure the fewer xover components, the more will be spent on drivers and system integration. Now I'm the one making broad unfounded generalizations :) But it is true that when the time comes, I'll be able to find a viable replacement for this very simple crossover design. And when I do, I'll certainly listen to Duelund caps - not kidding.

Looking forward to reading how the final xover sounds.

Dan
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Dan
I did listen more than maybe it seems. Someone on here a long time ago suggested why don't you try Duelund. So I ordered one with the other caps. Not really thinking much but hearing good things about Duelund.

It was Shit Luck. I had been listening to foil caps for 28 years and did not know why I liked the vintage (horn driven woofer ones) Klipsch better. I just knew I did.

It was just luck that a Duelund was of the same type (foil)of cap but much better than the vintage. Pure Luck that Duelund tweeter caps kept Klipsch qualities I really liked "realness" and Duelund took away the overbearing shouty midrange.

I am going to finish it off here very soon. I am waiting on a EL84 amp back from tech and will fix the x-101d. I have now learned that not all vintage amps are as good as one another. The fisher 500c is better than the SS gear I had but not even close to the x101-d??? But the tubes are much better quality in the x101-d and boy do tubes make a difference. I felt with that amp I could hear around the instument. To make a statement about the CAST vs. VSF you need a dead quiet amp. Too bad the 500c is not that amp.

Dan part of the reason I bought the Heresy's is I already know what will make them sound good and do not have to do this again. So I understand your feelings big time!

That is why I find Steen's findings as important as his caps. I bet he did it hundreds of times and I know he knew TONS more than we do and even HE was frustrated. So if he says stick to foil or stack foil or some kind like it that is good enough for me. I know I could hear what sounded liked speakers out of phase with plastic caps. (maybe one of my generalizations) Which leads me to his comment that the speakers need to be in phase all the time to sound real.
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