2. speakers
  3. 1211428524

Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Thanks Dan they are singing like they NEVER have in the 28 years I have owned them!

I am the one who is writing in to Arthur's site about the caps (CAST and VSF) and my feeling is if he had moved the Khorns down to Class C (upper) from Class B there is NO comparison to standard Khorns. I am not sure if they are again best in the world but they are MILES better than any stock Class C ones! I did invite him to hear them. If one likes Khorns they are going to love them with Duelund.

I do agree Dan on the Cd's I do not have a ton anyway. Now as for CD era and '70's?? Was it not early '80's that they came out? Do you mean '80's and 90's?

I now know without a doubt my old gear was mid-fi. What I once struggled with wondering was it the Lp or amp or speakers when sound was not good is now child's play. I can not believe how easy it is to hear record wear.

I have 150 records to go to the used record store. He is very excited about them as mostly they "look" new. Likely 100 of the will be the best in the store. The thing is I could not tell for sure they were worn out (before) now it is just so easy!

I have a original Blue Note Lp Somethin' Else from 1958 (stereo version) and it sounds AMAZING! Mine must have been played 1000+++ times (maybe 10k times) has noise but you can tell the level of the recording is just mind boggling. To think they did that in 1958 and then the garbage from the early CD era. What you can tell is that those old heavy Lp's stood up wayyyy better than later era vinyl. Much harder and heavier. I really can not hear any wear in the record, noise yes but no wear.

The only thing I am struggling with is to get a handle on the CAST vs. VSF and everyone wondered if one could even hear the difference. That could not be farther from the truth they do not even sound close to VSF. Biggest difference from any cap I have heard.

On the noisy Blue Note record it is the CAST that cuts noise by 90%? I know that is shocking but true. I can listen to either the CAST speaker or both but not the VSF in comparison.

The VSF though do seem to give air around the instruements better. The VSF's are looser the CAST the ultimate in detail and noise reduction. The air from the VSF does make things come alive more.

My ideal might be some combination of the two. I am hoping (praying) the mixing will give me both the air and noise reduction. Maybe the best of both world's.

I have put a request out to Stormen to see if he has ever mixed and which should go first? (in series) I remember reading someone said it was like cooking a little of this a little of that for best results. I am going to mix today and see.

I hope the sum of the two is better than each seperate.

Well here goes a CAST for noise reduction and a VSF for a bit of air. Please!
danmyers
135 posts
 
Regarding the era of poor CDs, I mean that the CDs published in the 80s and early 90s of bands from the 60s, 70s, 80s, generally sound very bad. As you noted with albums, there are always exceptions, but they are typically not mainstream labels.

Overall, I enjoy my SACDs as they have a nice analog sound to them. Of course, the format can't make bad source material sound good, and I have some SACDs that just make me want to cry because the songs are great, but they sound like you're listening to them on a cheap AM radio. No matter, the SACD format is dead and I suppose Blu-ray HD is the next thing to try. You should be able to catch this wave and bring some high res digital to your horns.

Volley, I haven't played a record since the early eighties. I made the mistake of selling all my records for next to nothing. Not sure if it's the nostalgia, or it's for real, but I do recall analog sounding better on much less expensive equipment than I have now :) Of course, I do remember the hiss, the scratches, alignments, the rumble, and hearing footsteps as people ran through the house. No perfect solution I suppose, just an endless series of trade-offs.

volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Dan
I came back to vinyl around late '90's. I went to buy a CD player a Linn Karik and the store said what about a Rega Planar turntable. The Rega was much better at $750 then and the CD player was $3500. At the time I was in a state of shock how the modest turntable (on an obsolete format) sounded better?? I did not buy either put it on the list to do and friend later sold me his Lp12 for around $600 that was when everyone was just getting rid of their vinyl and tables. (my first Lp12)

That is a common thing the ticks and pops comment my lp's mostly have none. Vinyl was so cheap a few years ago if it was not perfect I got rid of it. But what I am finding out (thanks to Duelund's) is that even the very clean looking vinyl has much more wear than I thought.

I use a wall stand in the basement where my stereo is now. It drove me nuts in the livingroom and walking gently etc..

My opinion is vinyl is much better! A big pain but better sounding although buying tube gear (I admit) took a lot of the digital edge off. My opinion on vinyl is that has much to do with the recording process. The "loudness wars" were not going on when vinyl was the most common form of stored music. It is almost like the recording engineer is afraid to left the sound go quiet. So I feel a lot of digital's faults happen right in the mixing. Also the average persons stereo is worse today than 30 years ago. (according to my high-end dealer) So the poorer the average stereo the less need for quality source. Let's face audio nuts are just not that important in the $ sense.

I was visiting my Uncle once and at the stereo store his buddy had a friend who used to work in a recording studio. He said they would run songs through what he called the "shit box" and what that did was compress the sound to the middle freq.. They wanted a sound that could be played on cheap stereos or in the car. It was very interesting hearing him talk. The guy used to work for Oracle. (turntable manufacturer) He also said a audiophile release would be a joke in a way because all they did was sell the "non compressed" version. (they knew the audiophile would have the gear)

My best vinyl (for sound quality) is the 1958 Blue Note album. It was never made for the car no doubt recorded on tube mic's, likely using tube lathe cutting machines and on very thick vinyl.
stormen
30 posts
 
Volleyguy,

I don’t know, I find the Duelund CASTs to be so good, I don’t see the need myself.

If you insist, I would bypass a CAST with a small VSF.
Or ask Duelund if they would do a CAST with a VSF dielectricum. Perhaps, that is your meal ticket… :)
wavetrader
260 posts
 
Your Blue note recording from '58 was probably recorded on a Ampex 3 channel. I find my best CD's are recorded around 58-63?....Verve Porgy & Bess with Ella and Louie A. is just a great recording. These Cast Duelunds have had such a profound effect....I recently switched the PC on my C200 preamp from a NBS master to a NBS pro..the difference was jaw dropping. So there are many things to do to bring "pop" to recorded music or remove the recording from the music. Funny thing I have a lot of the older fantasy recordings on CD....on my system they sound great...on a buddys system they sound embarrasingly bad...
More to discover