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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
theaudiotweak
2,801 posts
 
Volleyguy

If you still have a North Creek inductor order up some Cascade Audio V-bloc. This material is a heavy anti vibrational paint that goes on purple and drys hard as a rock to a dense black color. I painted the parasitic filter inductor in my solid state amp and the V bloc made for a simple nice upgrade. I have since wound my own 8 gauge inductor for this same circuit and painted with V Bloc..wow nothing like an 8 gauge inductor tied to the output of an amp. I checked the Q of this inductor before and after the application of the V bloc. The Q dropped 20% with the anti resonance paint applied. Writing this for someone like your self who may have both a doped Duelund and a stock 8 gauge North Creek to compare the direct benefits of hard anti resonant treatment of a an untreated air core inductor. Tom
sherod
1,690 posts
 
What's the difference between this Cascade Audio V-bloc and AVM? Reference 3a is now painting all their driver magnets and baskets with AVM and it makes a nice improvement in clarity and dynamics.
theaudiotweak
2,801 posts
 
Sherod

Glad you asked. I just treated the cd spindle platter of my transport with AVM and wow what a nice improvement..I have always heard an improvement after using AVM..now almost across my entire syatem. I use the Cascade on large surface areas, devices that are not as refined such as inductors and transformers. The Cascade is more heavy handed in that it can remove some of subtle musical detail along with the resonance that it tames. AVM never seems to do this it somehow is selective...How could that happen?

I have painted speaker dust caps and interior speaker surfaces with the Cascade product. At first there is a slight negative overall but then after a couple days of cure time it all comes back and is better overall.

Cascade you can purchase by the gallon for what a couple of ounces of AVM costs.

I selectively use both depending on the surface area and the activity of the device. Tom
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Tom

Mine is a 10 guage and I do still have it and would have tried the material but have already bought the Duelund's inductors. Is this the same material Dgarrestson was using?

Just one question how did you measure your Q? You must have some serious testing equipment! Tom your testing equipment is for sure out of the league of mine. How did you do that?

I only sound tested the NC and did like some things about it but could not get past the high freq hardness and I did not understand/or expect that to be and issue on a low freq inductor. I assumed it was resonance but do not know if it was skin affect?
theaudiotweak
2,801 posts
 
Volleyguy,

Both Dave and I use AVM. Dave has told me he too hears the benefits of this blue goo. To my knowledge Dave has never used the Cascade treatment.

I used the original version of Cascade 10 years ago on my Dunlavy speaker mod and it made for a huge improvement after treating the interior walls of the cabinets. The new version of the Cascade is easier to apply by brush or spray..goes on purple and drys matt black, so it looks fairly nice.

The Cascade is much more affordable than the AVM. For selective big jobs I use Cascade as I wrote previous. For speaker baskets I would use Cascade for tweeter bezels I would use Cascade for the interior of a soft dome tweeter and I would use AVM..now in that process mode of trial.

My suggestion is to treat the North Creek inductor that you know the sound of so well with Cascade, 2 or 3 coats..cure and compare again to the Duelund. Can that application bring the North Creek closer to the soul of the Duelund? What you have left over you may want to apply to an internal surface of a speaker cabinet. Tom
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