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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
salectric
748 posts
 
I agree with Volleyguy's hierarchy for the most part. Improving couplings caps in the upstream electronics makes the biggest difference. I would probably tweak the ranking just a bit. Going from biggest improvement to less:

1. Coupling caps in linestage
2. Coupling caps in phono stage
3. Resistors in key locations of phono and linestage
4. Capacitor in tweeter crossover
5. Coupling caps in power amps
6. Resistors in tweeter crossover (if any)
7. Inductor in woofer crossover
8. Capacitor in woofer crossover (if any)
9. Inductor in tweeter crossover (if any)

Of course, the degree of difference that a cap replacement makes depends on what type of cap is being replaced and by what. You can expect a much bigger difference replacing a Solen with a CAST than a V-Cap with a CAST, for example.

It is often said that no capacitor is perfect and they all have some type of sonic failing. That is certainly true. Yet I don't recall ever reading any description of the Duelund's failings. There's no question the Duelund CAST copper sounds very good, and we tend to focus on all the things it does right but it isn't perfect.

Based on my experience with 3 pairs of CAST caps (.47 at 630v, 1.0 at 630v, and 7.5 at 100v), and having tried the high-voltage caps in several locations, both as bypasses and solo, I would offer this one complaint. The Duelunds don't have enough high-frequency life and sparkle. They sound just a bit too smooth in the upper mids and treble and not quite as airy and resolving as I would like. Now you won't hear those areas as problems if the CAST replaced a Solen. But compared to a 1.0uf Sonicap Platinum, that's what I hear. The SP has more life, more air and more finely resolved detail in the upper highs. The Duelund sounds better overall than the SP---better balanced tonally, more detailed, more neutral---but I do miss the special qualities of the Sonicap Platinum in the treble. (Note: these comments only apply to the 1uf SP, not the smaller values).

What do the rest of you think about the CAST caps? Do you hear any negatives?
salectric
748 posts
 
I forgot one to mention that the CAST caps do not all sound alike. I recently swapped my 1.0uf for the .47uf. Both were fully broken in. The .47 is thinner in the bass, not as warm, not as much body. The 1.0 however is a bit darker and less lively. I suspect this may be due, at least in part, to the different types of leads. My .47 has solid wire leads; and the 1.0 has thicker braid leads. I notice the Silver CAST has Duelund's flat silver leads. I use the Duelund 1.0 silver wire in several critical places in my preamps and power amps, and I like it a lot. It might be a worthwhile improvement to replace the existing leads on CAST caps with Duelund's own wire.
charles1dad's avatar
charles1dad
10,250 posts
 
Sal,
I can accept the premise that nothing is "perfect" and I'm someone who replaced the Solen with a Duelund CAST in my speaker crossover(5.6uf). I also used the CAST in my DAC to replace the stock coupling capacitors(1.0uf).
My impression, simply no negative tradeoff whatsoever the CAST are remarkable across the entire spectrum. Most significant is the improved nanaturalness and realism of music reproduction, things just sound right.

Granted the improvement gap is likely less if moving from say, Sonicap Platinum, V-Caps, Mundorf SGO, etc. Neither of these or other fine capacitors can match the sheer natural tone and timbre/harmonics of the stunning CAST.
These CAST placed in a source component is without question is a very wise decision, my DAC went from very good sound to what I now consider to be sublime. At this point I prefer Redbook CD in my system to many good analog record systems I've heard. I believe that the CAST is an example of an expensive product that in reality is a genuine bargain given its sonic impact.
Charles,
grannyring's avatar
grannyring
6,468 posts
 
Salectric, you are finding different CAST values sound different not because the cap sounds different, but because the VALUE sounds a little different in that position. That has been my experience - this is especially true of preamp output/coupling caps. Larger values my have more bass impact etc...due to how the corresponding piece of gear downhill from the CAST cap performs with it...synergy.

I have found that sometimes Duelund CAST caps may too revealing and a tad bass shy in some locations. Rare, but I have heard it.

One cap I keep talking about is the JFX JB Premium film cap. I replaced the CAST with these in several pieces to compare and these are a steal folks. $5 for a 3.0uf value! $11 for a 6.8uf value. They are warmer sounding than the CAST with better bass. They are not as resolving however. They are more polite in the top end, but depending on what your looking to accomplish, they can be ideal!

I use combination of both on my system. Nice results.

Another cap I like is the paper wrapped Jensen copper. very rich and full bodied. Again, not as resolving as the CAST, but a nice lower cost alternative if needed.

The JFX cap is easily the cap of choice if looking for excellent sound quality that is affordable. Forget, Solen, Mundorf etc......these JFX's caps are a far better value. ya, to my ears they sound better
salectric
748 posts
 
Grannyring,

I agree that in some instances the cap values can be responsible for a change in tonal balance. The smaller value cap has a higher -3db frequency. But in my test I used a very high impedance load (330K) so this shouldn't be a factor.

I also agree the JFX JB Premium caps are quite a bargain. They sound pretty good and at the price you just can't go wrong. But if we disregard price and value, I have found them to be too bright and too lean (at least in speaker crossovers), and they don't pass along enough detail. For just a little more money, I prefer Sonicap Gen 1.
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