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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
junker
6 posts
 
Getting further along on the RS break-in...and they seemed to really open. At some point with my Mazda chrome plate gain tubes etc I was feeling too much top end emphasis.

And then in my tube amp I replaced some cheap 0.1uF MKP coupling caps with 0.22uF Supremes that I had and around this same time I regained just about all of the spatiality that I felt lacking upon initial install of the RS. Now, a couple days later I feel I have a great deal of tone, neutrality, detail, and spatiality. Not sure if the RS are still coming in and to what extent the coupling upgrade cap had but right now I'm very happy with the RS's and I don't feel they are doing anything wrong. I'll still run this is for a bit longer and give some final impressions.

Also, I wanted to mention that Chris Johnson put together a massive bulk buy of 0.01uF Duelund Cast Silver caps for use as by-pass caps and told us that he will have very good pricing on them because of the quantity order, and that the use of these will go a long way toward bringing the best of both worlds with CAST silver.
volleyguy1's avatar
volleyguy1
343 posts
 
The RS are getting some hours on them. My guess is they sound very close to VSF that I have already.

Like Junker said a great deal of tone, neutrality, detail and spatiality.

Even after 4 years of doing this I am still stunned at what difference even 1 cap makes!

You would think all higher end caps would converge on a similar sound. Not at all the case.

Jupiter vs. Duelund RS.
First of all I have tone controls. (so imbalances easily corrected)
With the Jupiter's I treble is set to neutral with the Duelund it is -2.

The Jupiter's create an absolute black background that is beyond belief. (literally beyond belief) A singer will have blackness around their voice that does not sound natural to me.

The Duelund's are not so tidy but oh sooooo organic sounding.

Grannyring has mentioned things to reduce noise like the sand etc. if one is looking to reduce noise Jupiter is "the" cap...

The Duelund's are just so natural sounding. The RS sat here for close to a month me not putting them in. I was somewhat worried Duelund was going to go all super low noise in the Jupiter direction being wax. To be honest the first time I was not excited about Duelund.

You have heard it from me on here before I wanted a cap between the CAST and VSF but closer to CAST. The RS might be that cap? Not sure yet but like the VSF sounds very good right out of the box CAST took some break in.

My phono stage is now all Jupiter after that all Duelund. (have not listened yet) I might do up one of the other amps with RS and maybe some of those Silver CAST?
grannyring's avatar
grannyring
6,504 posts
 
Interesting comments on the Duelund requiring you to set the treble tone control to -2. That corresponds to my findings exactly. I found them slightly tipped in the upper mids/low highs and I don't have tone controls. Over time this very slight emphasis was not as musical to my ears, in my system, as the Jupiter caps.

I do suffer tinnitus and I require my highs and upper mids to be smooth and not even the slightest bit emphasized. The dead quiet and ruler flat response of the Jupiter caps really have me smiling.

The noise they remove also helps my tinnitus.

I also find the Jupiter caps soar higher in the highs with more air. Important not to confuse this with a slight emphasis in the highs as they are not the same.

I found this difference in electronics and cannot speak as expertly on speaker use.

I try to post these details so readers get a sense of the flavor differences as one one cap is not better than the other in all conditions and for all needs.

I can say this. Jupiter copper foil caps burried in Reptisand filled crossover boxes are astoundingly quiet and absent of noise. Shockingly so.
slowikpl
14 posts
 
Thanks Grannyring !

There are so many answers like this one about mixing different capacitors. http://www.northcreekmusic.com/Bypassing.html

I think first I will test now what I have already. If I'm not happy I will buy another 40uF duelund for the middle speakers.
volleyguy1's avatar
volleyguy1
343 posts
 
Grannyring
I agree I believe we both hear the caps exactly the same. The original point of this thread was to give a person an idea of what to expect. Caps of course provide HUGE change in sound but the resale is obviously poor. So nice to avoid poor choices.

I moved the Jupiter caps to my bedroom system which knowing how they sound is the kind of sound I am looking for there. (using still in phono stage)

Without a doubt Jupiter's are quieter. I can not imagine a quieter cap. When there is a singer the voice is suspended with an uncanny pitch blackness around it. Just crazy and this was with one cap!

Jupiter's are also quieter than CAST or any cap that I have heard?

The downside is the Jupiter's are quieter than the actual event. (to me)

The RS shine in organic bloom, nice weight, natural sound, real feeling venue energy. (at the expense of what can be perceived as noise)

Not sure if you are aware of this Grannyring but Steen used vintage caps before making his own. (VSF) Vintage caps are not low resonance. So his voicing would tend toward that direction.

My amps are vintage and Duelund caps are wayyyy better versions in all ways but still in the same area.
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