Cartridges: Complete Scam?

@luizfcoimbra

I will completely disregard cart/tonearm/phono synergy and compatibility issues and give you the most honest answer that I can, having myself bought and/or experienced a variety of cartridges ranging from U$200,00 to U$10,000: YES, IT MAKES A LOT OF DIFFERENCE and the upgrades are not subtle, but rather like "I CANNOT live without this improvement". I wanted to believe that there’s no difference between a thousand dollars cartridge and a four thousand dollars cartridge

I do not agree with this rule at all. Tried a few respected (brand new) $3000-5000 MC cartridges on high value various tonearms and returned to the rare vintage MM cartridges with ease. First any MM cartridge is always much cheaper than MC, but the quality and sound is not "cheaper". This is not universal rule, but carefully selected top vintage MM cartridges ara amazing and still 5-10 times cheaper. Apart from the vintage cartridges the only vintage things in my analog rig are the nos tubes, direct-drive turntables and toneamrs. I will never spend $3000 on any cartridge again and it does not make big difference to me like it makes to you. However, the cartridge is the most important component in my opinion and it’s worth to try many of them to find the one which gives us tonal satisfaction, but it is not about the price as you described it (it's about the search). $10000 for a cartridge is a nonsense, let’s face it (and don’t tell your wife). Anyone is able to build the decent sound system without spending $10000 on a cartridge. Don’t forget the used market offers, $1500 for MC and under $700 for great and very rare  MM and that’s amazing deals for superb cartridges.

Madavid is now living under an assumed name in Uruguay or Moldavia.

My feelings as regards the last few posts between Luiz and Chakster is that both are correct.  Based on my admittedly limited experience there IS a big difference between "low cost" LOMCs and very expensive LOMCs; if there is a Nirvana it is to be found somewhere among the high end LOMCs. They can often be a lot better than inexpensive LOMCs (or they can be awful).  But even here, no generalization holds, because we have acolytes for one or another modified version of the DL103 or 103R who will tell us how giant-killing those cartridges are or can be, for one example.  On the other other hand (note that there are 3 hands), it is my opinion too that there ARE MM and MI type cartridges that play at the same level of excellence as any of the most expensive LOMCs.  Good enough that preference is a matter of legitimate opinion and certainly also system-dependent, probably also room-dependent.  

madavid0

... your input has had zero value, not only to me but to anyone. "Are you happy with your sound" is a meaningless question; what difference at all does it make if I’m happy or not happy with it? If I’m happy with my sound, does that mean my audiophile journey is complete -- is this the "right" mindset? What if I’m NOT happy, may I continue to pursue better sound in that case?

Wether or not I’m happy with my sound has nothing to do with achieving better sound ...

@madavid0 it looks like you were frustrated when you began this thread and that you’re even more frustrated now. My suggestion is that you schedule a visit with a good audio dealer. Then you can listen and decide for yourself.

Whoever disagree with (market) prices assumes some other
''concept '' or theory of value. Say , one assume some ''real value'' different from the (market) prices. As I try to explain with classical economist who distinguished between 'value in use'' and ''value in
exchange '' ( aka  prices) . Alas they deed not succeed to formulate any  consistent theory of  the ''real value''. Except perhaps Ricardo in his  ''corn economy'' in which all ''values'' are expressed in terms of  corn amounts. So one should be aware what one assume.  There is no other economic theory than theory of (market) prices,

So I'm browsing through the cartridge listings. It looks like the ads fall into one of two categories:

1. Dealers trying to move cartridges at full price while pretending they are massively discounted.

2. People trying to unload their old junk.

I've learned already through buying vinyl through eBay and Discogs that people habitually lie about the quality of their items -- every single "as-new", "pristine", "looks unplayed", etc, record so far has has been dirty and scuffed. Unless it's literally new in sealed factory shrink wrapping it'll end up being someone's beaten-up crap. 

Does the same mentality apply to selling cartridges? At least when a dealer is selling their lightly used cartridge for basically full price, it'll look and probably is in good shape. But some of those private ads the casings look beaten up -- why do I want your beaten up junk bro? At least sell it to move and don't lie about how wonderful it sounds!

Or is it everyone is scanning the listings non-stop for actual good deals and snap them up instantly so that all that's left are the dealers like that guy claiming to sell XYZs for 40-50% off (I do like the ones that have that cool little ball in the front...) and the old junk no one wants?

Where do you find rare cartridges that compete with the finest modern cartridges?