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Computer audio, I am not convinced yet ......

I am extremely interested in using the computer (Mac or PC) as a source for a digital playback. It seems to be the right direction for modern digital playback, a good alternative to the age old CDP, has endless potential and most convenient. So, I got an EMM DAC2 (retail $10000) with USB input and connected it to an Windows laptop via USB. My preamp, amp, speakers and cables are also of very good quality. Played some track on my system from the PC (used Audacity software, a very good and high quality software for sound processing). In 2 minutes I had to turn it off. It is just mediocre sound compared to playing the same track through a $1000 CDP(Sony SCD XA5400ES). It is almost like listening to an internet-radio through my PC speakers. I was wondering what happened to my first rate sound system ? Later I replaced the Windows PC with a Linux based MacMini, hoping that I will get the result I wanted. But it did not improve much. I did not like the outcome. My listening experience with the computer set up was 4 minutes(2 with PC and 2 with Mac) total. Since then I have gone back to using the same old CDP. I think I blame on the USB interface for this failure. The USB interface has not come up to the state of the art of a modern CD player. I did not try other interfaces purposely. No High-Res, only 16bit/44.1 audio files. I dont listen to SACD. Fire Wire to USB, USB to SPDI/F, Fire wire to HDMI, Firewire to SPDI/F, and almost an infinite combinations of patch up ideas are out there. But I dont like a patch up solution nor do I like to compromise the sound in favor of convenience.

I have heard many audiophile friends changed to computer based playback system many years ago for good and they are happy too. But I am not convinced yet. I am eagerly waiting for computer audio to catch up. I am sure it is in the making but it still has to go quiet a long distance.

Your thoughts are most welcome.
topmostaudio
tboooe's avatar
tboooe
1,009 posts
 
08-24-13: Cerrot
I think anything other than an spdif out via a sound card is a LARGE reduction in sound quality. Why would we go through the abomination of converting a usb signal into high end audio when you can have sound card doing it natively?

I am going through this mental debate right now as I plan my CAPS server build. My practical side says why not just get the ASUS Xonar soundcard and use its SPDIF straight into my DAC instead of having to get USB converter in between. As Doggiehowser has pointed out there appears to be come benefit to using the USB then a converter to get rid of noise, jitter, etc. That being said, I am going to have to try out both ways to see which is better.
cerrot's avatar
cerrot
1,700 posts
 
I have the ESI Julie@ soundcard; didnt hear the asus -
I never heard of isolation being a benefit to USB; if anything, the 'isolation' creates its inherent problems.

USB was created to hook up peripherials, not to play muic.
cerrot's avatar
cerrot
1,700 posts
 
The puter is definitely susceptable to noise but it is much easier to deal with than the USB interface's susceptablity to crappy sound, jitter, and the rest. I added a nice power cord, richard grey power conditioner, shatki stone on top of the case and nice isolation feet. the puter has silent fans (for now) and is in the next room. It sounds awesome (but not as good as a VERY good CD payer into the same dac). I have heard the Ayer USB converter and th Berkeley and neither (to my ears) sound anywhere as good as the soundcard. I plan on building a caps server as well, but it will have a sound card. There truly is no practical explanation as to why you would not use a sound card, or at least try it first. Considerig the soundcardis $150 and the usb converter is $2,500, why not just try the sound card?
audioengr
3,282 posts
 
Vegas - The analog section of the DAC is very important to achieving balance, dynamics and an analog quality. Detail, imaging and slam are mostly a result of lowering jitter in the digital sections.

Important analog aspects are:

1) output drive current capability - output impedance and linearity with dynamics
2) I/V conversion linearity
3) gain stage(s)
3) volume control technology, if included

All of these 4 can be compromised, resulting in compression, low S/N ratio and anemic dynamics. This usually occurs with Op-amps, slow-reacting power subsystems and poor volume control technologies.

The best course is to avoid op-amp outputs IME. Also, try to eliminate the preamp altogether or replace it with a transformer passive linestage.

In order to achieve the best system S/N ratio, it is optimum to make the signal as large as possible early in the chain, as in the first stage after the I/V conversion or the I/V stage itself.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio
levy03
442 posts
 
Steve N: i disagree with your statement "If you want to not only beat, but exceed the performance of the very best CD transports/players, you will need to use USB.

my PWDII/Bridge/PWT has "exceeded" every USB set-up i've heard to date. and i'm not talking bargain basement USB setups. i do stream alot...but have a WES610N pulling in the stream and wiring it to my gear. works beautifully and sounds fantastic. jitter is not an issue for everyone....if you have the right gear.

you don't "need USB" to get outstanding sound. there are alternatives.

no...i'm not an engineer or anything even close. i do know a thing or two about what sounds good.....and it doesn't all revolve around USB (like you make it sound sometimes).
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