DAC as pre amp

This post is just a brief for posterity sake in regards to the the significance of a good pre.  As I have stated in other threads over the last few years , when the subject arise,  I occasionally remove my pre from the chain and run my Wadia 321 as the pre.  I always find my way back to my dedicated pre.  I got some Quad Z-4s awhile back and after a recent post regarding the DAC direct question I decided to try again.  This round the improvement was even more dramatic with the dedicated pre and the Quads. My modest system is good enough for my level of listening sophistication.  but If I ever decided to upgrade a component in the future , the pre would be the unit I would explore.   Another member stated that a good pre will ad a "richness" to the sound.  I think that is exactly what I hear.  


carlsbad2 = this man said it absolutely right.

pre-amp = long time ago, when only phono signal was only a source (with am, fm radios), the signal was too weak, so pre-amplification was needed before any power amp.

no more we need the pre. b/c any dac or cd player makes signals strong enough. now, we have to change the name of ¨pre-amp¨ to ¨control amp¨.

maybe, ¨control amp with slight signal modification¨.

it is truly sad there are people who like the modified sound !!!

when you eat some bbq meat, somebody likes a bbq with lots of sauce. actually the guy enjoys the sauce rather than the meat itself.

go and listen real live music, then you can realize that how much your home audio sound different from the live sound, in terms of vividness.


rich sound = usually, original sound + artificial sound produced by audio electronics as a by-product, usually base frequency.

whenever i hear somebody likes the rich sound improved by a new pre-amp, i have no intention to talk with the person.

I have no problem with people who prefer not to run a preamp if that's what they prefer.  A decent preamp introduces negligible distortion, though.  The difference may be impedance matching or long cable runs I don't know.  It's funny how the anti-preamp people are much more emotional and dogmatic about it.  Where does that come from?

input impedance: preamp = usually 47k

                        power amp = >20k

 inexpensive cd player output = 100 - 200

direct connection (cd + power amp) 200 ohm/ 20k ohm = 1/100 

no meaningful signal loss @ low and high frequency regions

so, there is no impedance matching issue.


some people usually say such as "impedance...", showing they are technically oriented...   not worth listening to them at all, ha ha ha!

For what it's worth - I had considerable experience using various DAC's with my Veloce tube (battery powered) preamp with great results and every time ( except the last) the preamp added space and refinement to the sound quality.  The last time I was using the T+A DAC 200 with the preamp and then took the preamp out of the system and experienced NO loss of sound quality, refinement or control.  I agree with Audioman58 - the DAC 200 is VERY special both as a DAC and a preamp.  My vinyl (Gold Note phono stage and PSU) also sounds just as wonderful running thru the DAC ( NO conversion- analog in and out, just volume control).

This is a bit late but IME either of two pre amps (Parasound, Benchmark) that I have on hand sounded better, hands down, than running dac balanced-out directly to solid state amp. Nothing on the order of an expensive Chord or T+A but an older Oppo BDP 105 and a much better Musetec 005.   With the Musetec I was left wondering why they'd even include a volume control that, in my experience, severely shrouded the Musetec's SQ in my system.