DAC Shootout Starts This Weekend

I had an interesting conversation last night on the topic of "accuracy" with a gentleman who is both and audiophile and a professional musician.

When discussing the concept of "accuracy" his concern is tonal exclusively.  Does the instrument sound like the instrument in question?  Can it reproduce the difference between say a Steinway and Yamaha piano.  

Beyond that, "accuracy" has no meaning.  Most studio recording are not recorded live.  More often than not, each artist is recorded individually and the tracks are merged.  If it is recorded live, it is in a weird space (studio) and not reflective of anyone's listening experience.  

If it is a live performance and it is electric, then reproduction of sound is not where the musician is but where the amps are and microphones capturing crowd noise.  If it is an acoustic, live recording in a venue rather than a studio, then you could discuss accuracy, but to whom?  Microphones are on-stage, often near the musicians.  Not in the crowd.   

You get the point.  Imaging and the experiential nature of a recording is all fictional and driven by the engineer and record company,  This can even be at odds with the preference of the artists.  Unless you have the engineer available to tell you exactly what they were trying to accomplish, we are all guessing at what image they were trying for.  

I spend a lot of time talking about imaging and I definitely have preferences in this space.  Others may disagree which is why I have tried (not always successfully) to simply state what the experience is and not whether it is good or bad.  My preferences are mine alone and are not more or less valid than anyone else's in defining good.  

@david_ten

all good!

i had to look up 'chimera'... learn something new every day

some of you guys here are just too smart for me ... philosophy lessons from hilde45, and vocab expansion from david and chasdad!!!  ... :)

Questyle CMA 12 is in and has been tested.  This is the least expensive unit tested so far other than the internal DAC of the AVM.  

This is an extremely impressive unit for the money if you ignore the headphone amp.  With the headphone amp and overall versatility, it is insane.  

First off, not the be all, end all in terms of detail. It is a step down from the ~$5K DAC but this is not alarming since it is $1500. 

The overall experience is that the DAC is neutral with a wide but relatively shallow soundstage.  There is no emphasis on treble of bass.  Tonally, reminds me a bit of Bricasti but the central image is lacking vs. the much larger units.  

There is sparkle in the piano.  There is good, not great separation in the drum rolls in In a Sentimental Mood.  The soundstage in Be Still My Beating Heart is wide.  Bells and most of the detail is there but not as clean and well separated as with the higher end models.  Effects were obvious and came from where they should during liberty and the opening of Duende was a hair muddy.  The Berg piece sounds a hair bigger than is ideal and string seemed a hair massed in certain places.  

Compared to the more logical price comparison of the Hugo 2 and the AVM Internal, the Hugo 2 offers more in terms of detail but the soundstage on the Questyle is much wider and bass extension is deeper.  Vs the AVM, it is more detailed than this internal DAC but lacks the deep central image that the AVM has. 

Very simply, if you are looking for a DAC in the sub $2K range and are looking for a good all around performer, this should be on your list whether you are a headphone user or not.  Take away the headphone amp and the price on this unit is fair.  Add in the headphone amp and it is an incredible value.   

  @verdantaudio  I agree generally with you and your musician friend to the extent that there is no reality and hence accuracy in conncection with electronicly produced music. No base line exists. The recording is an artifact made by the musicians and especially the recording engineer. There is no natural event in the real world.

This is not so in the realm of natural unamplified acoustic music. The base line is what it would sound like if you were at the live performance. Yes, there is no absolute single correct sound, because the sound changes according to your seat in the venue. The recording engineer’s job is to take the multiple tracks and mix them down to approximate a live concert from the perspective of a real location in the venue. Accuracy has meaning in this context. It has none when the music is electronically processed in the first instance. To the minority of music lovers who enjoy live unamplified concerts (classical, opera, etc.) "accuracy" has real, if not precisely exact, meaning.

Khadas Tone 2 - This is a $210 DAC on Amazon with an onboard headphone amp.  In what might be a test of the two tiniest external components in the history of audio, this paired with the 2Go/2Yu is amazing.  The Tone2 is about 3" wide by about 2" Deep.  Yet they have squeezed in a pair of RCA Outs, an digital coax in, a USB C in/out and and a USB C I2S out with a headphone amp that accepts standard mini plugs and has a 4.4MM balanced output.  

Sound is shockingly good.  It is miles from the $5000 units is closer to the Queststyle than I would have guessed when you consider the Queststyle is 7x the price.  

Compared to the Questyle the soundstage is narrow and the level of detail, particularly in terms of treble, is not in the same league.  Drum rolls on In a Sentimental Mood are a little muddy and the bass is a little underemphasized.  Tonaly though, the Piano has sparkle and the mids are thoroughly enjoyable.  

On Be still my beating heart, it is much narrower than the Questyle in terms of soundstage.  Especially the bells that you hear during the chorus in some cases are missing or are very quiet.  Yet tonally it is superb and there is no sibilance in Sting's voice.  

During Liberty, effects are too quiet and too close to the speakers.  Where they should be coming directly from my right or left, they are localized at the speaker.  But there is no sibilance in her voice.  Strings and horns are smooth.  Piano has sparkle.  

During Duende, precise detail is off just a touch at the highs.  Air around the strings and some of the detail between the drums is missing but detail in the bass was surprisingly good.  Good separation between Tony Levins notes in the opening.  A bit too much localization of the cymbals in the right speaker about 4:30 minutes in.  

In the Berg piece, sizing was very good.  The piece sounds intimate and tonally is is very good.  When they are playing together, there is some massing of strings but not as much as I expected.  

The thing to remember with this test is that I am trying to push these DACs too extremes and have picked songs that should highlight flaws.  As audiophiles, we tend to listen to music in more extreme circumstances and are more aware of these flaws.

I would not recommend this DAC to anyone in the $1500 budget or above as that would clearly go to Queststyle or Chord.  Under $1500....it seems pretty compelling.  On a tight budget...and you need an external and maybe a headphone amp for an easy to drive pair of headphones (will cover headphone performance separately), this thing is awesome.