DarTZeel Preamp

Although as I stated previously, I am done with my involvement in this thread, I DID promise Hooper (Andy) during our chat the other night that I would post to confirm that he and I discussed our issues in this gentleman's hobby in a gentlemanly manner. So I am keeping that promise. Andy, it was good chatting with you the other night and I am glad we continue to be friends despite our different tastes in gear.

I won't be at the next SE Mich Audiophile meeting on 11/12 as I will be out of town (it was originally set for 11/5 a day I WAS avaialable) - I hope to see you at the next meeting.

"3. I am a customer of Jtinn. That is because he is the most knowledgable, honest, reliable, caring person I have met in my 25+ years in audio. His customers needs come before the sale. For example, my friend was interested in the Dartzeel amp. Jtinns first question was 'Which speakers are you using? He then responded by saying that he believes the speakers are too inefficient for the amp and wound up selling him nothing."

Notwithstanding some of the posts in this thread, I would wholeheartedly agree with Bkonig. I am a customer of Jonathan's for a few of my pieces and his customer service and advice is amongst the best I have encountered. He is always a pleasure to speak with, and often goes above and beyond in trying to get any questions or concerns answered immediately.

In keeping with this thread, I might have some comments about the preamp in November.

Frank and Andy- I am so glad your friendship is stronger than some contentious words posted on the internet. Life is too short to argue about the merits of an amplifier/review.

"2. People in general may have their own agendas. It is no secret to people that have some connection to this world that money sometimes talks. Advertising dollars and $$$ in general can sometimes have an impact on a review. That is why reviews (along with a lack of respect some may have for individual reviewers), must be taken with a grain of salt. Yes, like every other profession, some reviewers are better than others.
One quick story to validate my point - At the stereophile show this year, I overheard a reviewer (not a stereophile reviewer) talking with a friend. He stated that he asked a speaker manufacturer (fairly well know but I will not mention any names) what they can do on a pair of XX model speakers. The reviewer was bragging that he got the speakers outright (a $7,000 pair) and the reviewer mentioned to his friend that he will have to write something good about the product. I overheard this story when I was helping a manufacturer break down his room.
Keep in mind that I believe that many reviews are honest ones. The problem is that the public will never know which ones they are."

BKonig

Am I to infer from your post above that because no money changed hands or dealer accommodation given to the reviewer (Fritz) for the amp that his review was an honest one?

I have said before that I know both Jeff Fritz and JTinn. I have read the review several times and to me the only apparent negative was the inherent price of the amplifier and that when compared to others in this price range Jeff felt that the consumer does have options to consider.

OB, you have asked me a question 2 different times and for various reasons i had not yet answered you.....my apologies.

i was fortunate that yesterday i again took possesion of the pre-production darTZeel preamp......i drove to Portland and back.....got home at about 7:30pm last night.....plugged it in......and listened until about 3 in the morning. for the first few hours digital, then vinyl until i couldn't keep my eyes open any longer. i got my second wind at about 10;30pm and my third wind about 1:30am.

so my aurial memory is now 'real-time'.

so what the hell do i mean by 'liquidity, palpability, and delicacy' when describing this preamp?

when i say 'this preamp' i mean the pre-production dart pre, the pair of Stereo dart NHB-108 amps, and the BNC cables connecting them. since i can only use the proprietary connection at this time i cannot assign cause and effect between the pre, the amps and the cables.

by 'liquidity' i mean 'liquid' as opposed to 'dry'. real life has a lack of edge; if you close your eyes and concentrate on real life sounds (not reproduced) there is no real edge to sounds, even fingernails on a blackboard have no 'outline' or abrupt starting point. real sounds are not 'dry' and lifeless. real sounds are rendered in a context of 'air' around them; they exist in relation to what else is happening.

an SET amp typically sounds 'liquid'......althought usually at the expense of immediacy and lack of frequency extention and speed. the tube warmth of a typical SET amp does portray a type of liquidity, or lack of 'dryness'. the darTzeel combo's liquidity is more a removal of distortion than an added something. my interpreation of what i hear from the dart pre is that a layer of 'hash' or distortion is removed from the music that leaves that more real liquidity that more closely resembles real life.

the tangible benefits of this lack of distortion or 'liquidity' is more real detail. this is easiest to hear with massed strngs or choral works; where it is easy to tell what is different. whereas previously, these musical events were percieved as 'those musicians or instruments over there'....now they are percieved as that group of players over there singing/playing together but now each 'voice' has a purpose and message. it greatly enhances the musical gestault and draws me into the music. i am listening to an event and not the playback chain with it's own character.

palpability is the sense of realistic size and shape of things; also of true flavor, texture, and action. is there something real connected to that sound? is dis-belief suspended? is there a sense of natural scale and feeling? can i taste it? feel it? am i there?

is it palpable? is it real?

delicacy is simply the ability to complete tiny things correctly; and not obscure or artifically interpret the tiny but all-important heart of acoustic music. when music is delicate......it moves me.

these three issues are connected; the dart combo does these things at another level or two higher than i have yet heard before. at first it is a little disorienting; since some of your reference recordings have such a different feel. but after relaxing into the music i have found that everything is just more real.

again; i apologise for the delay in my answer; my heart was just not into the beauty of music for a few days.

Oneobgyn:

In reference to your first point, I do not know what changed hands regarding the dartzeel review. When I mention money, it can simply be a manufacturer giving a component to a reviewer to keep and the reviewer in turn may develop an allegience to that manufacturer. These allegiences are the problem.

Regarding your second point, the Soundstage review, if the amp was not properly broken in, then it should not be compared to anything and should not be reviewed. I read the 6 moons review and this excerpt explains my point.
"My unit was not new. It was a review sample forwarded from another industry reviewer. For this piece, it took 2.5 weeks of continuous playing in addition to whatever the previous reviewer had put on it to arrive at sonic stability. It would have been an unforgivable mistake to evaluate this amp before then.
Some components reveal their true character right out of the box and offer incremental refinements over time. Other components change character. The darTZeel belongs to the latter group. The amp starts off sounding like a nice little tube amp - sweet, fairly dimensional, with a polite bottom end - nothing to get exited about. Soundstaging at that point is average for a high-end amp - good but not world class. A few hundred hours into the process? Zowie! The authority and majesty of the low end explodes out of nowhere. What started off polite ends up powerful. A previously slightly recessed soundstage now blooms out into the room. The amp transforms from "really nice" to "holy shit!"