DAVE w/ or w/out M Scaler?

@verdantaudio

scott i am curious to know if the m scaler function aids/does not aid throwback r2r or nos r2r dacs...

seems on the surface of it that the m scaler is a high-computing-power upscaler, so fundamentally not compatible with/helpful to dacs designed on non-oversampling philosophy, correct?

or maybe this is one of these cases where the reality is counter-intuitive?

@jjss49  this is an interesting question.    On the surface, you are right.  The approach with a NOS DAC is the exact opposite of what Chord is trying to do with the M-Scaler.  NOS DACs are trying to serve up a digital signal in its purest form while Chord and the M-Scaler are trying to recreate an analog signal as completely as possible driving the need for up-scaling.  Theory says you shouldn’t be able to hear a difference yet people do.   

In this thread poster ecwl talks a bit about this.  
https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/46501-chords-new-m-scaler/

So theoretically, it should have no impact.  However, many M-Scaler users report improved sound even in pass through mode compared to USB.  
Check out this thread focused on the Denafrips Terminator over at Audiobacon.  
https://audiobacon.net/2019/02/28/denafrips-terminator-review/amp/

Ultimately, I don’t have an R2R DAC lying around that I can test this with.  You can be  certain it won’t take full advantage of what the M-Scaler is capable of.  

thanks scott

i actually do have several nos r2r dacs in hand... will try and see for myself... i just wanted to know what the 'official line' from a retailer might be on this interesting topic, at least from a conceptual/theoretical point of view

will check out the noted threads...

I had a DAVE with Blu2 (sold), and then a TT2 with M Scaler, and then a Qutest with M Scaler. I sold them all over time, deciding I wasn’t really a fan of the Chord sound. But the one thing I realised over that time was that the M Scaler made everything sound worse.

The sound produced by the M Scaler is brighter, tonally bleached, lean and artificial. It removes the natural warmth and fullness of recordings and adds an artificial sense of detail. People hear this impressive difference and think it must be an improvement. It’s not.

The M Scaler is no different to upscaling through Roon or other software. Rob Watts adds some proprietary sauce to make it sound a little different to Roon but it is essentially the same thing. There is absolutely no reason why a PC cannot do what the M Scaler does, despite Rob Watts’ claims.

There are no free lunches in audio. Massively upscaling audio files to 768 Mhz does not just turn them into the equivalent of native ultra high resolution files and does not come without cost. That cost is the bright, lean and fatiguing sound that the M Scaler produces.

Rob Watts claims that the DAVE/M Scaler reproduces transients better than any other dac, but this is audibly not the case. The DAVE/M Scaler produces splashy, two-dimensional transients which sound artificial, and can be bettered by many other dacs.

The gullible Chord fanboys on Head-fi have drunk deeply of Chord Kool Aid, but make sure you form your own view before buying one. Definitely don’t fall for the old trap that if it sounds different, or if it appears to produce more detail then it is better, because it is not.

I really loved the m-scaler paired with my Qutest.  It made a really big and clear difference that had it going toe to toe with my PS Audio DirectStream.  But it just hasn't been able to cut it with the DAVE.  Hard to say exactly what it is - but it just feels completely sterilized.  Like it sucked all the air out of the room.  Maybe this is because the Dave is so strong on its own. It seems to add a little tighter articulation at the cost of space and entirely removes the three dimensional vibe that Dave starts with.  It's just a totally lifeless sound.  Like an extremely high resolution image of a sculpture.  Without it, the Dave just absolutely comes alive. There have been one or two fringe cases where I felt like the m-scaler was additive - usually on poorly recorded tracks, but 99% of the time the Dave is demonstrably stronger without the m-scaler in tow.