for europeans the dCS Puccini plays more or less in the same price category than Nagra, M.Levinson or Audio Research.
is it better to go with an Audio Research like the Ref 7 which has already been replaced by the Ref 8 after only a few years or with the Puccini which should (we hope) have a longer cyclus of life thank to the possibility of being updated by a new software?
... and by the way, sounding better than the Ref7 ... |
The CD-7 was only replaced after 4 years - that is an awful lot of time for a CD player. The CD-8 is much better and so is the Puccini. No contest.
FYI - the software update for the Puccini has nothing to do with sound quality. |
Elberoth,
Which do you prefer...the CD-8 or Puccini? My dealer has both and pre-
fers the CD-8. I haven't heard both side by side. |
Jonathan Valin from TAS wanted to compare both players. I don't know if he has already done it |
Well, if Valin's doing it then what's the point. |
It is possible there is some licensing related explanation for this upsampling firmware thing, but I'm not sure what that is exactly. I suppose it is possible there are intellectual property issues at work here beyond dCS desire to simply charge more for the functionality. If that is the case it would have to be evaluated in that light. |
Lula,
CD-8 and dCS offer very different perspective. Puccini is more transparent of the two, is more forward and has loads of details.
CD-8 is much warmer sounding, with lots of texture and much better rendering of soundstage depth.
When I first heard the Puccini, I was ready to proclaim that it is much better than CD-8. But after some 4+ weeks, I'm not sure anymore, I find myself listening to the CD-8 more and more, 'cos it seems to be more musical.
The rest of my system is Dartzeel pre / Dartzeel pwr / Wilson Sophia 2 speakers. |
Thanks, Elberoth. My dealer also felt the CD-8 is simply more musical and
natural sounding. I have a CD-7 and am wondering whether to make the move
to a CD-8. |
Do it ! There is a substantial difference between the two (CD-7 and CD-8). |
If someone needs to combine cd-8 qualities and dCS Puccini qualities and get the most of it, then get the Puccini and Stealth Nanofiber interconnect! It's a magic combo with musicallity and all the detail and openness.
And if like upgradeabillity and computer-audio sometime in the future the Uclock or even better the Paganini DAC and computer transport. |
have you also tried with Stealth Indra? |
Hello
and thanks for the information i can take out of this thread.
I´m from Germany and i´m owner of a Verdi/Purcell/Elgar plus stack without firewire.
In the moment i´m thinking about two ways to get the music out of my computer.
-The first is using the digital out of a Linn Sneaky to the Purcell.
-The second and more charming way, would be to take the Puccini U-Clock into my system with the additional benefit for my other DCS equipement
Did anyone of you has listened to this second combination?
To tell the truth i´ve also thought about buying the Puccini cause he looks so good, but even my lokal dealer told me that i have to go to a Scarlatti-Stack if i want to make a significant improvement to my present combination.
Kind regards
Joe
|
"my lokal dealer told me that i have to go to a Scarlatti-Stack if i want to make a significant improvement to my present combination."
You are in very good shape already then IMHO> |
maybe the Paganini could be an option
if you decide to buy, have a look directly in England, the german importer is puting the 30% devaluation of the £ against in his pocket !
no problem with warranty, you get it directly from dCS |
Hello
the official price in Germany is 4,6k Euro, that are about 6kUSD in the Moment.
But i did not know the price in the UK.
The only U-Clock listed here on Audiogon is from Norway, but Norway is not a part of EU, so i have to pay Import taxes and the total is almost the same or a little bit more, than buying it from my local dealer.
Kind regards
Joe |
Elgar,
A friend of mine, Elgar Plus/Verdi LaScala/Verona owner, told me that the Puccini is a sideways move.
Since you seem to lack the Verona clock, getting the U-Clock makes a lot of sense - it will serve double duty as your system clock (which will brang a substantial improvement by itself) and USB receiver. |
That´s what i hope for,
i was looking for the Verona half a year ago, but there was not a single unit on the market only complete stacks. After reading a very positive review of Puccini and the benefits of the Puccini U-Clock i thought it may be better than my old DCS Equipement and even looking great now.
I asked my dealer, if the Puccini may be a step foreward, but he told me that only the Scarlatti is a real big improvement and the Paganini which looks as good as the Puccini does, in his opinion, stands only a little obove the old references.
The Scarlatti is too expensive for me, the Puccini U-Clock seems only to fit to the integrated Player, there is no Verona on marked, i remembered my old Sony Esprit Pre , which has gotten a grat upgrade, changing almost all parts within a seperate power unit and never since i´m in need to buy something else. Should it be possible to even make such expensive stuff better this way?
It makes a difference for me to think about that, with my 1000USD TAE-86B in mind, than to think about a 30000USD stuff, making an improvement with changing some caps an building in some WBT NextGen parts.
But why not take Google to have a look?
This way took me to the "Upgrade Company", which seems to be the wright place if thinking about that. The answer to my question regarding his Upgrade is, that the new clock instead of his modification is just peanuts, cause even the DCS equipement is full of cheap parts, and if you are changing these against the best parts available, that is a real great step forewardand the question:"Do you know that DCSes have zero shielding !?"
Uuuups that is not the kind of answer i have estimated. My thoughts are going in the direction "forget it".Now i opened my three machines and saw that he is wright with the shielding, but the parts build into the boards look so highly integrated that there are only a few caps and maybe the powerunit giving him a chance to improve.
Okay perhaps one of you has allready tried that.
Looking at the homepage of DCS for about 100 times at least i got the idea to few the tech data sheet of the U-Clock. Okayokay, why it has 4 clock outputs! ? Could there be a chance..........Oh and the talking about the assynchronous whatever USB , i just don´t understand anything, only that this seems to be the highway to Highend-heaven via PC.
Okay to do both, upgrading and this new USB-Clock seems to be the wright way for me.
Kind regards
Joe |
Elgar,
Upgrading is a tricky route - pls remember that the final outcome is always unknown, and it is always very difficoult (if possible at all) to recover the money spent on upgrades. |
Hello Elberoth2,
all my experiance till today, are very positive. The two Vintage Sony Esprits which are modified, have nothing to do with the basic items and are sounding outstanding good now. But there have been hundreds of parts changed to better ones, cause they are older and therefore still build in a traditional way with no ICs at all. I would never sell the Sonys, cause they are my Hifi dreams when i was young. The same is with Wadia and DCS gear. Looking for their digital equipement from the beginning i never heard any bad sounding product of them.
From my point of view, one never can fail buying any Wadia or DCS stuff.
There may be strong competitors, but all of them only copy the lot of ideas coming from Wadia in the past, or in younger times also from DCS.
They are going the own way and don´t look at the others.
For that reason, they are at least obove all others for me, even their might be products out in the world that sound better, but till now i don´t know one !
Kind regards
Joe |
Elgar, if you have the stack without firewire, that means that you aren't upsampling all the way to DSD? I would think Pagannini would be a considerable upgrade just by adding the DSD functionality. |
Elgar,
BlackstonedeJd is right, If you are not using the firewire output from the transport you are only getting a small part of the DCS sound. The upsampling to DSD is far better than without. The digital output when compared with the firewire sounds less refined and not as sweet or extended in the highs.
The Scarlatti is a beast and a very fine player. In comparison with the Elgar/veron/La scarla it has more depth and width, with a warmer and sweeter presentation. It is not an CD8 which adds its own nice flavour to the prceedings. It steps very slightly into that direction when compared with the elgar dac etc, but is still on the neutral/cool side of warm. Its very heard to beat the Scarlatti although I have heard complaints from some people about it. It just has no sugar coating. Its real. I prefer this in a source myself. Let the music do the talking not the hifi. I have always found that I get bored of a systems color after a while, even if its nice to begin with. |
Hello
and thanks. I will ask DCS directly, what are the costs of Firewire-upgrade for Purcell and Elgar Plus.
Till now i didn´t think that this is a big improvement.A german review from "Image Hifi (6/2001)" testing the Delius/Purcell says, that there where only small differences regarding brightess/speed and less dynamic and rythm. "The last kick is missing when the system is playing in 24/176,4 instead DSD."
Okay seems to be a little bit more.
Kind regards
Joe |
Elgar,
it may be worth trying to find a later version of the DCS transport with firewire built in. I dont know which version of the Elgar dac you have, but if it has firewire then you are in good shape as the La scarla and Encore transports have the upsampler built in. So you can go straight from the transport using DSD to the dac via firewire. Much neater. |
Hello Chadeffect,
i´ve also thought about your idea of changing, but didn´t exspect far more over all improvement.
Of course the Encore would be the best for me, but my own Verdi has the 1394 conection (don´t know if there is a DCS Transport without), only at Elgar and Purcell they are missing.The La Scala is the wrong option for me, cause i need a input to be able upsampling other sources.
Wait and see what DCS tells about the upgrade costs.
Kind regards
Joe |
Hi Elgar,
see what DCS say, but I am sure just removing another set of cables and connections and another box will get you somewhere. Again it is a law of diminishing returns, so there may be a cheaper way to improve your sound.
Find a good firewire cable too. I know it sounds stupid, but I tried a few and while they should make no difference to the data, I found the shielded versions did help the soundstaging and the sound seemed cleaner. I am not sure if you need to go as far as the siltech FW cable though! That must be the most expensive FWcable on the planet. I know virtual dynamics were working on something, but it is not out yet. I use a modified pro cable that is for a Protools rig. It has a silver screen and ferrite rings at each end. A good cable for the clock seems to help too.
The other thing that is obvious but seems to effect the DCS a lot, is making sure the transport is completely flat, as if it were a turntable. This can make the DCS very clinical and lacking warmth and lower mid/bass support. |
Hello
i use the good testet digital and analog interconects "Reference one" from Fadel Art, but i think about changing them, step by step agains MIT Oracle MA in the future.
But what is wrong with thinking, that if the path via firewire(DSD) is best, i "only" need the clock cables?
I did not find firewire cables in Highend market yet. Any improvement to exspect this way ?
Good news: I´ve just payed, and i´m waiting for my U-Clock.
Seems that Audigon is a real win/win forum in every aspect !
Kind regards from over the ocean
Joe
|
I would like to make a few comments about dCS u clock.( mine has just arrived)
Stereovox xv2 works fine and there is no need to invest on expensive BNC cables.( for this specific duty, the quality of the BNC cable will not yield an extraordinary benefit)
Since the unit consumes only 6 watts, the choice of pcord is not a critical decision.
The difference? without clock? with clock?
I don't know. Will find out soon and post it :) |
which power chords are you using with the Puccini, which would be top?
thanks |
Clavil
You have asked same question under different topic. I was going to answer it but I was fallen into sleep last night.
I do have actually puccini and its dedicated clock.
I have various powercords in my collection: Elrod EPS 2 sig, Shunyata Anaconda helix 15-20 amp, Acrolink Mexcel pc-7100, Purist Anniversary 15-20 amp, lastly, I bought a Kubala Sosna Emotion. ( I had Nordost Valhalla but sold)
I have additional DIY and original cords but not using them as prime cords: Modified Audience au 24 with oyaide p 46 male and female plugs, Oyaide Tunami with Furutech 25-35-50 (gold, rhodium, and the most expensive one with carbon fiber or kevlar)
With Puccini I have used Elrod, Kubala Sosna Emotion and liked. I have now Kubala Sosna and decided to keep it with Puccini.
I am 100 percent sure Elrod Eps 2 sig will work perfectly under any condition.(tube or solid state pre in chain, solid state power amp in the end of the chain)
If you can tell more about your setup, I may give you more accurate advise? |
Hello,
i´ve just discovered that Kharma have had a firwire cable (Kharma Enigma firwire) in their program, but they did not continue. Perhaps only a few DCS owners are not enough.
Does someone Know this cable and can tell me how it works in a old DCS stack?
Kind regards
Joe |
Hi Joe,
If you are looking to ugrade your dCS Firewire link I can recommend the Esoteric 8N-6p-6pi cable (although branded Esoteric it's made by Acrolink in Japan).
It may be hard to get although I think the Cable Company now lists it.
In my Verdi Encore and Delius stack it made a big difference over the standard dCS cable. I would say that the stack was delivering only 70% of its best performance before the Esoteric cable was added. |
Siltech also offers Firewire cable. |
Golden fire
sounds good.
A real hot cable.
Joe |
thanks Mert
dCS Puccini + Clock
JRDG Capri
JRDG monos 501 + PC1
Infinity Renaissance
interconnects+speakercables NBS Monitor II
power cable between PC1 and 501 NBS Monitor II
Power cable for the rest AET EVO HIN (Japan)
I hear mostly classical music + Jazz
thanks |
Clavil,
I am not familiar with your gear and the cables. I can not make any accurate comment.
However, DCS stuff is powercord reactive. It will change the presentation of your setup.(cords around 2-3k range)
If you would like to hear the dcs as how it is, make a simple DIY cord( would say Acrolink 4030 bulk) and apply any Rhodium based plug(furutech or oyaide) in order to maintain a flat response.
Expensive cords will not make a system sound SOTA but will let to voice the gear according to preference and priority.
Cheers |
I have found Stealth Dream Digital very good match with Dcs Puccini, with the clock siltech spx30 was good too. |
Thinking about the many paths to go within my DCS stack, the Verdi/Purcell/Elgar/Verona seems to be a real CABLE-TESTING-MACHINE.
If digital cables are as good as discribed it must be possible to beat the DSD firewire path with matching high quality digital cables using 1 cable from Verdi to Purcell and then using 2 cables from Purcell to Elgar.
If the interconnects are as good, as reviewed this 24/192 path, with MIT MA/Stealth/SiltechG6+G7 etc. MUST beat the firewired DSD sound using the DCS standard 1394, cause the DSD signal is described as only slightly better than the 24/192 !
Seems to be logical for me, but i cannot test it cause at my Purcell and Elgar the firewire terminals are still missing.Would be astonished if i am the first, thinking about this.........
Kind regards
Joe |
Puccini U clock
It is time to finish this topic!
1-Yes it does make difference! No surprise, I was expecting this especialy when I play damaged, scratched, ext. sort of discs where error correction becomes critical and affects performance.(jitter because if transport can't read the disc 100 percent, it will make second try, third, fourth.....)
2-Stereovox xv2 cable is adequate for this operation.
3-There is no need for skypriced powercords: anyone with a good shield and isolation will work fine.( ofcourse plugs has to be at least oyaide or furutech)
4-computer based audio is getting more and more popular than we think. There is a potential of saving from buying cds.
5-It has to be placed over the Puccini player not under unless you do not have a Finite Elemente Pagode Master Reference stand as I do have....
That's it, good luck to Puccini owners! |
why does it have to be placed over the Puccini, I have noticed that my Puccini is always a little warm and I was asking myself if the temperature couldn't affect the clock...? |
I don't have any empty shelf so I had to place over the puccini:)
It is good place transports over the shelf first in order to reduce vibration and other negative effects. If you place puccini over clock, you will end up with more vibration since it not rigid. |
the right position is under the player, the Uclock has its form for holding the Puccini which needs some ventilation.
\the alumunimum boxes are very solid constructed. |
Kops
Don't be oversure about solidity of alumun. box of dCS. Mind you, it is half empty! If Alumun is composed as sandwich like Symposium Svelte format, I would understand that. Heat? Yes there is. There are no external heatsinks on Puccini. Matterfact there will be always heat.
I couldn't report this to Mr.Stevens(RIP)of dCS because he passed away:( |
just adding my two cents here: when you go to the u-clock page on the dcs website all pictures show the clock under the puccini in a stack. this is unusual to me because i would think stacking would create more vibration than not. the dealer where i first listened to the puccini had the clock on a separate shelf (above), and i would guess separate shelf (above or below) would always be better, provided you have proper ventilation. anyway, for now, i use mine sans clock and hope to get one soon.
@kops, per our email exchange several months ago, you are correct, puccini+jadis is a very nice combination :)
best wishes to all. r |
I owned an early dCS stack, which was non-firewire. I had the Elgar and the Purcell.
I now have the dCS Puccini (currently without clock). Personally, I think that the dCS Puccini is an improvement over the original stack, for the following reasons;
1.) It loses the slightly dark, slightly cloudy sound of the Elgar.
2.) It sounds more dynamic and alive.
3.) It sounds "cleaner" and clearer.
4.) It extends further in both bass and treble.
If the Elgar is better in any respect, it is in a sense of depth (uncommitted on this point).
I should stress that it may be that there may have been improvements that made their way into the Elgar plus which change that equation. |
if you try the clock you'll notice music flow with ease and a sense of better depth. After living with the clock there's no turning back. |
Kops, I have just bought the u-clock. The main purpose was to make computer audio acceptable. I have a Sonos with a Rick Cullen mod (clock) and I just don't listen to it, because it is not as good as CD.
So far, I've only listened to the u-clock with CD. I didn't know whether it would make much difference.
It makes a big difference. I agree with your assessment. It is more rhythmic, fuller, cleaner and basically just more musical than without.
On the other hand, the dither feature is a waste of time. If anything, I think it is better without the dither on, which makes the music mildly constipated in comparison. |
Violinandviola:
Thanks for the comment on dither. I have always just had mine on, never tried turning it off.
Wow, you're right, at least with the sacd's i used. I wonder if its source dependent, like helps usb but not the transport? |
Jfrech: Yes, I'm not sure why it would have the effect it does. Maybe it does help with USB. I'll try it when I have my computer audio set up. |
upgrading for the clock ...
it will be possible to read high resolution files in 192kHz |
concur with Mert, even the official manual shows a sketch diagram in which u-clock is placed above puccini player. check page 12 and 7 of puccini's and u-clock's manual respectively. |
