Direct Drive turntables

While I am certainly not an universal admirer of direct drive in TT-design, I nevertheless would like to give due credit to a highly underrated design of the late 1970ies and early 1980ies.
Mitchell A. Cotters implementation of Technics dd (not that great...) and the bigger Denon dd (much better here) into his B-1 suspended plinth resulted in a work of genius (while pretty ugly looking..).
I am right now restoring a B-1 for a friend and have set-up one at a friends place early last year.
This smart and superbly damped and VERY effectively suspended (with very low resonance frequency !!) TT shows what a dd TT is capable off, if the brain behind is not guided by religion or "visions", but by a clear and logic mind a blue book written by an engineer understanding the physical demands of record playback.
Sonically, the Cotter B-1 w/Denon dd (with its stock Fidelity Research FR-64s or FR-66s..... M.A. Cotter did officially recommend using these 2 tonearms only with his B-1, as they did represent the best in his eyes and ears) is the very equal of ANY TT around today above 80 hz.
At any price.
Fast, very dynamic and with superb transient and low level detail. Its mid and lower bass - while still transparent - is however too low in weight and punch compared to TT's with high platter mass.
But this is the only sonic drawback and it is well shared by the vast majority of all other turntables of our day.
Anyone really interested in TT design and with a mild interest to find out what dd in turntable design can sound like should really try to give this big monster of years long gone by a serious listen. Make sure you listen to it set-up the way it was intended to be used - with FR-64/66s and FR-7 cartridge.
And with a 5-6 mm thick PVC/Metacrylate mat firmly attached to it platter and a good clamp (Sota Reflex or similar).
One of the smarter TT designs of audio history.

And I absolutely agree with Lewm, T_bone and Johnnyb53 - dd tt's are and very important part of audio history and were THE record playback in disco, home audio and broadcast since the mid 70ies (and still are in 2 of the 3 places..).
Plinth, suspension and smart and consequent applications of physics were and are rare - then and now.
And yes - the platter mass and its fundamental benefits for the "sound" of a turntable.
The one big, inherent drawback of dd turntables.

Alectiong:

"Hi, has DD a "theoretical" advantage over belt drive that will translate into better sounds? I am confused by opinions out there. Some say DD has a characteristic livelier/dynamic sound. Some say the type of drive mechanism really doesnt matter so long as the platter spins and vibrations are taken care of.
Happy NY."

So all technology aside here is what I "hear." I have two reference points, my personal journey, going from a SME 20/2 with SME IV.Vi arm to a Grand Prix Monaco with Tri Planar arm. Cartridge and tonearm cable remeained constant (Lyra skala and Purst Audio Designes Proteus Provectus). The Monaco hits the notes with the often referred to PRaT. Piano for the first time sounds like a hammer hitting a string. Impact, dynamic then lingers until the string finishes vibrating. The SME, which is a very good belt drive really missed the impact/dynamic it was blurry in comparison. I hear this trait over and over in my listening. It seems to marry what is good about digital, but keeping all the stuff I love about vinyl. Many vinyl purist won't like this description, but I think it's appropriate. I did feel like the SME table and arm had a little more "weight" on certain notes, but at the expense of detail, transparency and impact. This maybe arm signature between the SME IV.Vi arm and TriPlanar. I never tried the SME arm on the Grand Prix table, the combo with the Tri was just so much better, I never looked back.

The second is via a friend. Going from a Walker belt drive to a Technics SP10 mk 3 in a custom plinth. Similar result to my experience above. He used a SME 312s arm on the technics.

So 2 great belt drives, 2 direct drives, one brand new techonology one the best of vintage. Both owners are very happy DD converts...

Dertonearm, Have you seen the photos of the new "direct idler-drive" turntables to be marketed by TT Weights? There are two models, one megabuck and one for under $10K. But both sport VERY heavy platters in the 30-lb range and higher. I thought that would make you happy. (Unless your minimum criterion for Nirvana was >30kg, not >30lb.) Still, those are fascinating products.

Dear Alec:+++++ " Hi, has DD a "theoretical" advantage over belt drive that will translate into better sounds? " +++++

IMHO the opinion on DD advocates can tell you " several " advantages " and in the other side the BD advocates can tell you too the " advantages " on this design and maybe and only from the theoretical point of view both ( some way or the other ) can/could be right about each single advantage.

Now, a TT audio item is not a set of " single/aisle " advantages/disadvantages but a whole finished audio item with intrinsic trade-offs ( there is no perfect TT. ).

Where reside ( mainly ) those trade-offs? ( certainly not on the TT drive design. ) and this is a hard question with many answers, example: type of bearing, TT plinth, kind of motor choice, platter build material, arm board build material, TT " system " vibration/isolation ( external/internal ) mechanism, whole TT quality/build execution,.

These and many other factors are the ones that makes the " differences " and IMHO you can get/have the quality performance you are looking for with either TT drive mechanism.

Some people here and there try to put " things " in a very simple manner/way but the TT ( stand alone ) quality performance can't be judged in aisle way because this audio link is only a part ( important one ) of the whole analog chain where our ears and music/sound priorities are part ( too ) of that analog chain.

I'm almost sure that if you/we take a top BD ( like the one you own or a Walker. ) and a top DD ( say Mónaco ) with a matched tonearm/cartridge and care to set up ( the same for both TTs. ), same arm board build material, same suspension/isolation mechanism, same mat and an un-biased attitude you /we can't hear any detectable difference other that what we " want " to hear.
Now if both TT are designed the same ( mainly on build materials ) my " almost " sure can convert on a simple " sure " no detectable differences only because the TT drive system.

The Jfrech comparison help to tell us that the differences ( IMHO ) comes mainly for the TT design differences more than for the TT drive mechanism and in the case of his friend due that the tonearm in the TT's were different!!!!

The analog imperfections like an audio chain makes extremely complex to have a " simple " answer to your question: the whole subject is very complex and till today I don't read/know ( anywhere ) a precise answers that can be corroborated in a scientist/theoretical/mathematics model. Till this happen the best way to go is to have first hand experiences and decide ( take action ) in consecuence.

Btw, a good alternative is to own/run BD and DD in the same audio system and forgeret about useless " controversies " on that subject.

Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul.