Direct Drive vs. Idler Drive vs. Belt drive

@chakster 

"Motor vibration or bearing noise ... it is all myth and fear coming from belt drive users."

No, it is demonstrable.

I have owned all three drive types, and am of the opinion that the DD tables such as the Denon DP 75 and 80 are an excellent value. I suspect the two part platter isolates the record and cartridge interface from the effects of motor vibration that has a direct pathway in many DD table designs. 

Now my personal tables are a Sota Cosmos Eclipse and a Well Tempered Reference, both belt drives of course. Both sound excellent, and offer quality sound. The Sota with the Phoenix Engineering speed control devices has solid sped stability, and even the WTR has no significant speed variations to be heard. There are other advantages to each design that seem to outweigh any limitations to drive design. 

I had divested myself of the Japanese legcy direct drive tables in my system. However, I could not be helped, and I bought a Brinkmann Bardo DD table. It does not use the high torque design of the Japanese tables, and the platter mass is in the 20 pound range. Start up times is similar to a belt drive table, and torque is noticeably lower. However this is a wonderful sounding table. I use an Audiomods Series 6 arm on it with a Ortofon A90, and this table is the most evenly balanced table I have heard. It sounds eerily similar to the Sota, with perhaps a bit more sharpness on the corners of notes. Yes it is like good CD or good tape in presentation. 

All drive formats have the ability to deliver excellent sound. Listen to them, and pick the ones that speak to your heart. 

@terry9

@chakster

"Motor vibration or bearing noise ... it is all myth and fear coming from belt drive users."

No, it is demonstrable.

Please recall some of the best DD with such problem and describe us how can you hear it ?

I think i tried about 10 different Japanese DD turntables and i am not aware of this problem, i can’t hear it when i’m using nice DDs, i use thick Micro Seiki CU-180 and CU-500 gunmetal mats or at least SAEC SS-300 mats on all my direct drive turntables. Also a platter itself is very heavy on DD turntables like Technics SP-10mkII and Luxman PD-444. As neonknight mentioned above a lightweight platters like on Denon DP-80 are special (two layers) so also no problem. And Victor TT-101 platter is also lightweight, but no audible noise or vibrations coming from the motor.

Normally if i can’t detect (or can’t hear) a problem it does not exist for me. My cartridges are not sensitive for some reason, no matte LOMC or MM/MI.

I can’t blame any of my DD turntables using them with the best tonearms and cartridges (many of them).

Belt drive owners should stop scarring people, Direct Drive is an excellent choice today, especially top vintage Direct Drive turntables or brand new coreless Technics DDs.

mikelavigne

... execution is way more significant in ultimate turntable drive satisfaction than dogma...

I think this is true of turntables in particular and just about everything in audio in general. The notion that one technology or design approach is inherently superior to others is misguided because it ignores countless other variables.

If the Brinkmann has a 20-lb platter, that would make it a heavyweight among direct-drive turntables.  Only the SP10 Mk3 and probably the SP10R platters would be similar in weight.  Therefore, the Brinkmann must have a relatively powerful motor, as well.  Since I know it is a coreless motor, that makes it even more appealing.  In my experience, I have come to favor slightly coreless motors (e.g., in my Kenwood L07D and my Victor TT101) vs iron core motors, even though on the other hand the SP10 Mk3 in my 80-lb plinth is the most neutral.  The Kenwood is wonderfully "musical" compared to any others.
On the notion of motor noise in direct drive, there is an ocean of ignorance.  If you hear noise, it is bearing noise, the turntable's bearing.  All turntables have such spindle bearings.  So you cannot attribute that sort of noise as a bugaboo of direct drive.  In essence, a DD motor cannot generate any noise except spindle bearing noise, because the moving parts (the rotor) make no physical contact with any stationary parts (the stator).  Moreover, the motor rotates at a snail's pace compared to the motor of a belt-drive, where the drive spindle is rotating at a much much faster rate.  DD motors CAN generate electrical noise, e.g., EMI.  They generally rely upon the platter and some shielding of the motor casing to prevent EMI from affecting the cartridge.  I do believe the SP10 Mk2, at least my two samples, generated some EMI which did affect playback, faintly.  The Denon DP80 is quieter which is why I've kept it over the Mk2.  And I really do not believe that the SP10R motor made an audible noise, unless it had been abused by hundreds of show-goers prior to being played with.  Which is possible.