Directional wires/cables


Is there any reason to support the idea that cables, interconnects or any other kind of wiring can be considered directional? It seems that the theory is that carrying current will alter the molecular structure of the wire. I can't find anything that supports this other than in the case of extreme temperature variation. Cryo seems to be a common treatment for wire nowadays. Extreme heat would do something as well, just nothing favorable. No idea if cryo treatment works but who knows. Back to the question, can using the wires in one direction or another actually affect it's performance? Thanks for any thoughts. I do abide by the arrows when I have them. I "mostly" follow directions but I have pondered over this one every time I hook up  a pair.

billpete

@jea48

I seem to recall that in another post you said you learnt your electricity from this forum? Could I suggest reading a couple of recognised textbooks? Also, science advances when researchers publish peer-reviewed papers in scientific periodicals, which other researchers can cite in their work, or can challenge. By all means, read widely but for goodness sake, don’t quote indiscriminately.

So you are saying in a closed circuit the signal flows back and forth from the source to the load. Correct?

Almost. The signal is the voltage, which is analogous to electrical pressure caused by a slight excess or deficit in the balance of protons and electrons. Apply a voltage to one end of a wire, and almost immediately (depending on inductance) the voltage becomes uniform along the wire, including at the far end. If you make the voltage oscillate at one end, it oscillates at the other end. You don’t even need a circuit, though there is an almost imperceptible average movement of electrons when the applied voltage changes.

There is a slight time delay, which Quad make use of in their electrostatic speakers. They want to simulate a point source of sound a foot behind the panel. If you imagine sound radiating from that point, it reaches the centre of the panel first. then radiates outwards in rings. Quad delays the voltage signal to concentric rings using 12 miles of wire wound into inductive coils.

If the source is a CDP and the load is an Integrated Amp, using only one channel, the signal leaves the output on the hot wire of an IC, flowing back and forth, flowing to the input of the Amp, through the input circuit of the preamp, and then returns on the return wire back to the CDP output... Correct?

Vaguely. The source is a CD Player, so it outputs a line-voltage analog signal at audio frequencies, say 20-Hz to 20-kHz. The peak to peak voltage swing is around 1 Volt. Your interconnect (to me, IC also means integrated circuit) looks like a two-wire with RCA connectors rather than a 3-wire balanced connection, so there is a circuit. The amplifier presents an impedance (usually very high) so provides a path for some current to flow. The current flows out on one wire and back on the other. When the voltage reverses, the current reverses. The amplifier and the player could be designed so the current is regarded as the signal but almost universally, voltage is used as the signal instead.

As for the current the "net movement" of charge, it will measure the same on the hot wire as the return wire in the IC back to the analog output section of the CDP. Correct? This whole event takes place in the wires... Correct?

Correct. The current flows in the wires. This is not the whole event though! The current creates a magnetic field outside the wires. Changing magnetic fields create changing electrical fields - the foundation of electromagnetic waves. Note that these waves are not made of charged particles like electrons!

How does the input section in the preamp, for a better word, extract the signal from the IC as it travels through the closed circuit, flowing back and forth, back to the CDP? And what happens to the signal that returns back to the CDP?

Wow! Is that how you are saying it works?

The job of the amplifier is to take the AC input voltage signal (about 1-Volt maximum peak to peak) and increase the voltage enough to drive the speakers at the desired volume. A typical amplifier will have DC power supply rails at several 10s of Volts, plus and minus. The first amplifiers were based on triode valves, where a small voltage applied to one electrode allowed big currents to flow from the DC rails through the speakers.  Later the bipolar junction transistor (BJT) and the metal–oxide–semiconductor field-effect transistor (MOSFET) were deployed.

Amplifiers just have to raise the output voltage to some multiple of the input voltage. Would be easy if those pesky speakers stopped allowing big currents to flow! Big currents cause a voltage drop according to Ohms’s Law, making it harder for the amplifier to get the output voltage where it should be.

Energy is what makes the light bulb light, not the current. Current is not consumed by the load. Proof, it returns to the source. Current measures the same on both sides of the load.

Energy is not consumed, it is transferred. It does not return to the source.

Where do I start? Overall, in our universe energy is conserved, so the light bulb converts some electrical energy into heat, some of which is converted into light. The energy comes from the power supply.

Power is usually measured in Watts and is calculated as the current times the voltage drop. Without current there is no electrical power. Electrical energy is power times time.  It is usually measured in Watt-hours or kiloWatt-hours. In our light bulb circuit, current is conserved but the bulb consumes power as the voltage drops across its filament which has resistance. Ohm’s Law applies here as well as in speakers.  Know any two of current, voltage drop and resistance and you can calculate the remaining quantity and the power.

Do things in the white paper sound familiar? Is Ian M. Sefton wrong too?

Yes they sound familiar but only because you keep repeating them ad nauseum! Yes, he is wrong. "The things the text books don’t tell you"  contains things the text books don’t tell you because if they did, the text books would be wrong. I debunked his five major assertions in detail earlier. I marked each response QED, which coincidentally is the name of the maker of my main stranded, silver-plated copper speaker cables. They are spirally twisted around air-core tubes. Finally on-topic!

Ian M Sefton makes me ashamed to be an Australian,.really ...

Post removed 

@richardbrand Said:

@jea48

I seem to recall that in another post you said you learnt your electricity from this forum?

No, I actually said:

I first learned how electricity works here on Agon in 2010. Oddly the thread was titled "directional cables?".

A member started posting about how an electrical signal actually travels down a wire. I thought what Planet is this guy from?...

Before 2010 I believed, like you, electrons traveled back an forth from the source to the load in a closed circuit. I believed , like you,   AC current traveled back an forth from the source to the load in a closed circuit. I believed, like you, the AC signal traveled back an forth from the source to the load in the conductors. 

I learned in 2010 what I was taught in K thru12 was wrong how electricity works.... Four years of electrical apprenticeship training I was taught the same wrong crap.

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I see you didn't bad mouth Ralph Morrison. 

Ralph Morrison What is Electronics

Basically Sefton and Morrison is saying the same thing.

Quote from Ralph Morrison.

If we accept the idea that fields carry energy in space, it must be true at all frequencies. That is the law. If it is true for light, it must also be true for 60Hz power and at DC. For utility power, the energy travels in the space between conductors, not in the conductors. This is not the picture presented by circuit diagrams, where energy seems to be carried by conductors. In digital circuits, the signals and energy travel in the spaces between traces or between traces and conducting surfaces.

Buildings have halls and walls. People move in the halls, not the walls. Circuits have traces and spaces. Signals and energy move in the spaces, not in the traces.

You don't believe any of that.

Your  words:

AC or Alternating Current flows for a short period in one direction, then reverses direction repeatedly. Analog audio signals are AC,

I left you this Link below to read. If you would have taken the time to read over it you again would have found you are wrong. You would find the info is the same as Sefton and Morrison.

ELECTRICITY MISCONCEPTIONS:

The Late almarg a well respected EE posted here on Agon the same info how a signal actually travels down a wire. It ain't the way you think it does.

rodman99999 Has tried umpteen times, tying his best to explain to you how Electricity  actually works.

Read the posts of @herman on this thread again.  

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Context, of my quote, you used in your post above:

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mclinnguy

@jea48

The Energy travels from the source >>> to the load (in one direction)

Okay, I got a simpler question, what if the load is disconnected before the energy gets there, what happens to that energy?

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My response:

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jea48 02-12-2025 at 03:03pm

 

@jea48

The Energy travels from the source >>> to the load (in one direction)

Okay, I got a simpler question, what if the load is disconnected before the energy gets there, what happens to that energy?

jea48 response:

It breaks the circuit. No circuit, no energy transfer, flow.

What happens when you flip off a light switch? Light goes off immediately.

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/ / / / / /

 

First an Edit. Add this to my response:

mclinnguy Said:

Okay, I got a simpler question, what if the load is disconnected before the energy gets there, what happens to that energy?

Can’t happen... The energy travels at near the speed of light. It’s at the light bulb the instant the contact closure completes the circuit... It’s that Fast!

Open the switch you break the voltage feeding the light bulb. Instantly, no light. 

If you believe the electrons are moving back and forth in the wire and the electrons are what makes the light bulb light then you might have to wait quite while for the bulb to light up when you flip the switch on....

~ ~ ~

With that out of the way....

Source, 120Vac.

Load, 120V 100W incandescent light bulb.

Simple circuit,

120Vac source, SPST snap switch to disconnect source from load.

Close switch, a completed closed circuit is created.

Instantly EM wave energy flows in one direction >>>, at near the speed of light, from the source and is absorbed by the tungsten filament in the bulb. The energy is not consumed by the filament but rather is converted to to some other form of energy. Therein heat and light.

The event can’t happen unless there is a difference of potential, voltage, applied across both ends of tungsten filament in the bulb. Break the circuit, No longer a difference of potential, voltage, applied to the tungsten filament. Game over! No more light.

(I left out the part of the involvement of current, electric fields, and magnetic fields. All are needed to create the energy electromagnetic wave. Just trying to simplify the process.)

I don’t know what kind of lighting you have in, say, above a bathroom vanity in your home. If The light fixture uses incandescent light bulbs just go to the bathroom flip the wall switch on. Light instantly. Flip the switch off. Light’s gone instantly.

Electricity doesn’t work like water in in a garden hose. Water hose, turn off the faucet and water will continue running out of the hose. Electricity don’t work that way.

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As for this:

This is precisely the phenomenon used by older car ignition systems to generate very high voltages from 12-Volt DC electrical systems.

Keeping it simple I’ll use a vehicles back when the electrical system, battery, was 6Vdc.

A high voltage coil is what stepped up 6Vdc to a high voltage for the spark plugs.I can’t remember how many thousands of volts it was back then.

The coil was, to me, a step up autotransformer. IF 6VDC was directly connected to the 6V pos and neg terminals on the coil it would work like an inductor. Not a transformer. A transformer only works when connected to an AC source. OR a pulsating DC voltage. So if you took the battery lead that feeds the neg terminal on the coil and momentarily touched it to the neg terminal on the coil, (completing the circuit), then remove the lead, (breaking the circuit) a high voltage would be induced on the high voltage winding. Electromagnet induction...

And that is the basics of how it works.

Of course for the ignition system of the vehicle there is a lot more to it. The thing that’s used to pulsate, make - and - break the 6Vdc to the coil primary winding is a spring loaded open and close set of "Points", contacts. A Condenser is wired across the set of contacts to extend the life of the contacts. There is a shaft on the distributor that is mechanically driven by the engine camshaft. It’s all about Timing! The distributor shaft has lobs on it that open and close the Points. There is a lot more to what goes on, but I’ll stop here...

@rodman99999 What would the high voltage output of the coil look like on a engine diagnostic scope? Example... A choppy, say, the top half of an AC sine wave? Never really thought about it...

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     The voltage on those coils was in the 20-40K range, and everything was DC (6,12 or 24V).

     DC voltage on an O-scope will just appear as a straight, horizontal line and read consistant with the scope’s voltage demarcations/setting.

     On an engine analyzer: everythings zero, until the magnetic field in the coil collapses and the resultant high voltage is sent through the distributor, to a plug.

     At that point: there’s a pronounced spike on the screen, repeated every time the points open and which appears very similar to an ECG trace, without the secondary pulse (lub sans dub).

                                                  Happy listening!