Do you think you need a subwoofer?

I agree with Stringreen and Raul. You can get an all passive full-range loudspeaker system to give you all the bass extension and coherency you could want, but it's difficult, very expensive, and the speaker remains room-dependent. Pick instead a speaker with built-in active sub like the GoldenEar Triton 2 and you get a similar level of performance for much less money *and* have the ability to adjust the bass level to the room and the speakers' positions in the room.

I just added a very fast, small sub (Mirage MM8) to my Mirage OMD-15 floorstanders. The OMD-15s have decent bass, but it's much better with the sub. If I had the coin I'd probably have a pair of JL Fathom F112's, one sitting right next to each OMD-15.

This is also a killer way to get the most out of a pair of Magnepans. Add some fast lively subs to some 1.7s or 3.7s. I heard a pair of Maggie 20.1s set up with a pair of JL Fathom F212s a couple years ago. Awesome sound and very easy to listen to on a wide variety of music, and very competitive performance-wise with any $24K pair of conventional speakers. Or consider a pair of 3.7's plus a pair of Fathom F112's. Total price is $11K and a value leader at that price point.

The really good active subs with continuous crossover and phase controls can be seamlessly integrated into a system. You have to work at it a bit but it's worth it.

Everyone needs a powered subwoofer...if you have one, you need another...if you have 2 you still need another. Richard Vandersteen and I were discussing this very point. Woofers are the prime user of power from the amp. If done correctly, powered subs take the burden off of the main amp, and therefore the amp is loafing and working with an ease, that is clear to hear. Also, the sub can be placed more comfortably in the room to provide a smoother low end ...no hot and weak spots. Vandersteen says that he uses 4 subs and it really makes a difference

Dear Stringreen: Harman/JBL people made several studies about the " ideal " number of subwoofers for a smooth response and high bass quality, here is the link where one of their conclusions was that four subwoofers are the " number " but two subs are very good too:

http://www.harman.com/EN-US/OurCompany/Technologyleadership/Documents/White%20Papers/multsubs.pdf

and here what Vandersteen has to say about:

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1117893153&openflup&84&4#84

Btw, Johnnyb53: maybe there is no " fast/slow " subs, please read this:

http://www.soundstage.com/maxdb/maxdb061999.htm

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.

11-12-11: Rauliruegas
Btw, Johnnyb53: maybe there is no " fast/slow " subs, please read this:

www.soundstage

Sounds to me like he *does* believe in faster bass, but somehow finds different words to express it. It's like saying that ice isn't slippery. Technically it's not, because the pressure of the object on top creates enough heat to melt a thin surface of water, which *is* slick. But it comes out the same place: step on ice, it's slippery.

By the same token, he can argue (speciously, I think) that the rise time at 40Hz isn't important, but a fast sub will have a fast rise time to mesh more easily with the rise times of the overtones of the bass note it's producing, and properly designed it should also stop quickly. This trait of speed makes it easier to blend the sub for musical purposes.

I agree that speed isn't all that important for car crashes and explosions in home theater (even there, better is better), but for music of most kinds it's absolutely essential.

Dear Johnnyb53: I think that the people can read the link and " form " their opinion about.

I agree with some of the points on that article. Sometimes is good to read 2-3 times articles like this one.

I tested along my audio distributors friends several times different subs as stand alone units and I can tell you that that fast/slow subs can't easy to detect.

The " perfect " integration in stereo fashion of subs to satelite speakers are a must and this can be achieved with fast/slow subs in the same system.
A stand alone sub sounds makes no music and even makes no sense when you heard. The relationship between the subs frequency response performance with/inside the satelite speakers is what it counts.

Anyway, the article opens a sligthly way of thinking on that subject.

regards and enjoy the music,
R.