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Does the first reflection point actually matter??

Hello my friends,

So please read the whole post before commenting. The question is nuanced.

First, as you probably know I’m a huge fan of the well treated room, and a fan boy of GIK acoustics as a result, so what I am _not_ arguing is against proper room treatment. I remember many years ago, perhaps in Audio magazine (dating myself?) the concept of treating the first reflection points came up, and it seems really logical, and quickly adopted. Mirrors, flashlights and lasers and paying the neighbor’s kid (because we don’t have real friends) to come and hold them while marking the wall became common.

However!! In my experience, I have not actually been able to tell the difference between panels on and off that first reflection point. Of course, I can hear the difference between panels and not, but after all these years, I want to ask if any of you personally know that the first reflection point really matters more than other similar locations. Were we scammed? By knowing I mean, did you experiment? Did you find it the night and day difference that was uttered, or was it a subtle thing, and if those panels were moved 6" off, would you hear it?


Best,


Erik
erik_squires
asvjerry's avatar
asvjerry
4,597 posts
 
As a fanboy of active room eq and the means to accomplish such...

A pair of ears, however compromised and even biased, can hear and discern 'details' that a calibrated mic with it's software may only hint at, or 'gloss over'.

Mho, one would need to be running some rather sophisticated wares, running in r/t into a 3D waveform to catch 'reflections'...and, even then. they'd likely be effected by frequency, harmonics...and even ones' presence in the space....

...and be very persistent and equally patient in the measurement routine.

I am an imperfect being in an imperfect world, surrounded by imperfect 'things' playing imperfect sounds.

Eventually.....one has to accept ones' limitations...

(Thanks a whole bunch, Harry....*smirk*)
asvjerry's avatar
asvjerry
4,597 posts
 
(....now, if we could only get kenjit to accept that....the world would be slightly brighter and shiny once again....)
*tongue Very Deep in cheek*
roxito
22 posts
 
The closer the reflection point is to the speaker the more it will matter. Likely more evident in smaller rooms.

 In my case, side walls are about 2feet away from the speakers. I treated them with a diffuser/absorber combo panels (soundplanks from ASC) and it  tamed down the brightness a bit as per my goal. But It also reduced soundstage width a little. 
lemonhaze
415 posts
 
@aj523, a good and sensible post. I use Dayton Omnimic V2 because I also need to measure the electro-acoustic and Thiele/Small speaker parameters but REW and HolmImpulse are free and do much the same.


@eric-squires, what is an "average audiophile'? You can only go so far by continual upgrading at great expense but all that extra detail and low noise floor you are paying for is being lost to strong early reflections. In fact at low frequencies where bass nulls occur that information is lost completely and you can not get it back with EQ. The more power you pump into it just cancels with the same power.

Multiple subs and bass traps are needed to smooth this problem out, a problem all domestic rooms have. If you consider the amount of time and money the 'average audiophile' spends on their system you would be better off embracing the subject than shying away from it. I am sure the cost of a mic. will be the cheapest and by far the biggest upgrade you can make. There is much on the net to help get a handle on this.

The software, apart from showing you waterfall plots which identify the most troublesome frequencies, will also help you position your speakers and subs.
erik_squires OP
16,046 posts
 
The software, apart from showing you waterfall plots which identify the most troublesome frequencies, will also help you position your speakers and subs.

You are preaching to the choir.  What I wonder about is how to be helpful with the least amount of trouble for an audiophile, or better yet, a music-phile, who just wants to get excellent results.

I wonder how many really want to learn what the software does, measure and adjust, and also, without a lot of reading and research, come to the right answers. Having the tools doesn't mean you have the skills.

And I don't want to discourage anyone from learning.  What my narrow question here is, for an audiophile who is new to the idea of room acoustics, and wants excellent results, am I doing them a service by suggesting they get a mic and REW or OmniMic, or am I better off suggesting they get a consultant like GIK to help them?
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