Dual vs single sub


Sorry Im sure this is all over the forums but I only found old articles. Situation. I have Two SVS 3000s that arent really doing it for me. Thinking of trading it in on the Big one and adding another in a year or so. Any thoughts on Big single vs 2 Medium?
128x128bryantdrew

 "If we agree with Duke's statement that 2 subs in a room provides twice the bass smoothness of 1 sub and 4 subs in a room provides twice the bass smoothness of 2 subs..."

I was paraphrasing my mentor, Earl Geddes. 

Not only does the frequency response get smoother at a given location, but the frequency response variations from one location to another within the room also decrease (which follows from the first statement, but it may not be obvious). 

Duke

audiokinesis:

"If we agree with Duke's statement that 2 subs in a room provides twice the bass smoothness of 1 sub and 4 subs in a room provides twice the bass smoothness of 2 subs..."

I was paraphrasing my mentor, Earl Geddes.

Not only does the frequency response get smoother at a given location, but the frequency response variations from one location to another within the room also decrease (which follows from the first statement, but it may not be obvious).

Duke"


Hello Duke,

     So to paraphrase my mentor, you, not only does an AK Swarm/Debra or custom 4-sub distributed bass array system's bass sound approximately twice as smooth at a given location than using 2-subs at a given location, but the bass will sound smoother from one location to another within the room, too.  

     It was not initially obvious to me that smoother bass from one location to another within a given room follows from smoother bass at a given location within that room until you emphasized this. Based on my experiences using the AK Debra dba system within my own room, however, it was initially very obvious to me exactly how this bass smoothness manifested itself as sota bass performance not only at a given location within the room (my dedicated listening seat) but virtually my entire 23' x16' room.  

     I have 6 seating positions in my room: a leather recliner centered on the rear 16' wall which is my dedicated listening sweet spot seat, a leather couch with 3 individually reclining seating positions along the right 23' wall and 2 large chairs straddling a 6' x 8' window along the left 23' wall.  

     Of course, only my listening sweet spot seat is positioned for optimum stereo imaging and the other 5 seating positions have compromised stereo imaging of varying degrees.  But, based on my own evaluations and the enthusiastic and very positive non-professional reviews from multiple family members and friends, the bass performance at all 6  seating positions in my room  is perceived as state of the art for music and ht. 

      I've even informally evaluated the bass response at all of the non-seating areas of my room between my main front speakers/hdtv and the back wall, and was unable to find a single spot at which the bass was not equally and consistently excellent.   Perhaps you're thinking I'm too easily pleased or exaggerating, but I honestly can't think of of a single audible bass performance aspect that requires improvement.

     In the spirit of honesty, however, I believe I must make it clear there is a rather obvious and serious downside to using a dba system that has nothing to do with the virtually guaranteed excellent sound of the bass of these systems; it does require the use of 4 physical boxes in the room.  There's no dismissing or ignoring this fact that, in my experience on audio forums describing the sonic virtues of dbas, can often be a deal killer for many potential adopters.  

     I believe the subject of how to best accommodate 4 moderately sized wooden boxes (my AK Debra subs are 12x12x28 inches in size) in a domestic room environment is probably best addressed on a separate thread.  So I'll refrain from discussing this and just refer those to my system pics for those curious.

Tim

I made my secondary subs coffee tables :) An inch thick piece of glass in top with a lamp and no one even knows they are speakers, the WAF went way up at that point.

I agree with many above, four subs is the way to go, independently powered and signal driven through a mini DSP gives you flexibility to add room correction through room measurement via Room EQ Wizard (REW) in conjunction with Multi Sub Optimizer (MSO). My mains are passive subs running off of a Pass Labs X-250 and the secondary subs are SVS SB-16 Ultras which have their own amps built in. All are connected via balanced connections. The bass is accurate, powerful, and adds so much to music and movies. I add a little bass in my movie setting and had friends jump out of the couch a few times during a recent action movie. Pure fun. 
Hello hifidreams,

     You're obviously well acquainted with the benefits of 4-sub dbas through personal experience. What exactly does your sub system consist of? 4 SVS SB-16 Ultras, a mini DSP with REW and a Multi Sub Optimizer?
     Your post makes me think of a couple other points worth mentioning:
1.  No one using a 4-sub dba, or anyone who has just personally experienced the excellent bass performance of a 4-sub dba for even a short demo, needs any further convincing of how amazingly well this concept works in practical terms, at this point you're just preaching to the choir. The icing on the cake is that it works equally well in virtually any room and the sota bass response integrates equally seamlessly with virtually any pair of main speakers.
2. Once you completely understand how well the dba concept works and you'd like to spread the word to others of this fact, I've discovered that writing or speaking about the virtues of dbas is likely the least effective means of convincing others since it sounds too good to be true and people remain skeptical. I think the most effective method is definitely just sitting down in a room with a decent dba system for a good audition. A good dba demo is worth at least 1,000 words
     I understand the skepticism about 4-sub dbas very well because I initially also thought it sounded too good to be true and I remained skeptical for many months before a free 30-day in-home trial period offer convinced me to give the AK Debra dba a try.
     I had dba skepticism because I had no experience with, or even knowledge of, the concept.  Now that I do, I've been transformed into a complete dba fan and promoter.

Tim,  
Hi Tim,

    I have two Kinergetics SW-800s (each has five 10” Seas drivers in their own enclosures wired in parallel) driven by a Pass Labs X-250 and two SVS SB-16 Ultras in my room. I have an active set up using a Mac Mini maxed out with SSD drives using JRiver playing lossless FLAC to my mini DSP via optical out. The mini DSP is processing 24/96 with 8 balanced outputs with 12 biquad filters on each channel which were created using REW and MSO. My main speakers (Magnepan 20.1’s) run full range. Highs/Lows of each Maggie have their own channels (4) and each sub has its own channel (4). 

To tackle the Herculean task of attaining perfect base I have spent almost as much money on my subs as my 20.1s. That is how much I believe it is important to get this aspect of the system correct. Proper base is essential to all music, I want a tympani to sound like it and make my chest reverb with a strike as it did when I played in an orchestra. Lower octave listening, even the vibrations you can’t hear but feel are foundational to the live experience. Those waves are dissipated in a concert hall but build up in a room and bloat the sound unless it’s done right. I’ve heard a lot of excellent systems and many top of the line speakers will not tread near 16Hz because they know it will be a mess in most rooms. 

While i get that many people will not go to my extreme to get perfect base having 4 subs of reasonable quality disbursed in the room can really make a system sound complete. When properly set up the bass is tight and integrates seamlessly into the system.

The most common statement upon seeing my set up is, “I bet you could blow out the window with that! Why do you have so many big speakers?” “It’s for accuracy,” I say and then ask to play their favorite piece of music. The first impression in listening to my system from non audiophiles is how “clear” the music is and that has everything to do with proper bass integration and room correction. I can turn up the volume to concert levels and it doesn’t seem “loud.” Yet when watching a movie where a tank rolls by the ground shakes, your gut gets a strange felling and  stomach makes a flip just as you would if you were standing next to it; shots hit you in the chest and make you jump. 

I agree with you. I can talk all day about how important it is but hearing is believing. All of this is not that hard to set up either. I followed a tutorial on REW and made some measurements. Did another tutorial in MSO when I was learning and plugged in my own data after seeing how it worked using the tutorial files. Spent a day having fun adding and refining it. It’s so exciting to experience how big a difference is realized when room correction is done right with an integrated sub system. 

My last piece of my system will be BACCH for Mac. . . Saving up my coins now!  

Happy Listening,
Steve