Dynaudio C-4 or Revel Salon 2

C4's harsh? Is this a seriuos comment? The Esotar2 tweeter was nothing but SMOOTH when I listend to records and even red book CD's for hours. The C4 series II speaker was far removed from cold or lifeless...they were what the source was.

I did not like the 800 series B&W's as they force you to listen to the "out front" sound over anything else. I'll take-in my music as I want to, thank you. Wilson Sophia's had a nice but much "smaller" sound and the midrange was too transparent. Good bass. UGLY rode look the only option, why?

The C4 II just imaged better and melted away, had a right sized neutral soundstage presentation, and had excellent dynamics and bass punch. C4 II's SHOULD do this for what they cost...and they do. I was using 150 watt SS Levinson amps and they were PLENTY loud. Sure, you can go to the moon on BIG amps, but the smaller amps sound better, so UNLESS you want SPL over quality, be my guest. More stuff in the audio path equals worse sound. There is no way around it. Almost perfect time almost perfect is less perfect. There is no perfect.

I'd live in the 150-200 watts range in a high current SS amp. The C4 II's are pretty efficient, a 75 watt tube amp would do to 85dB SPL or so.

If the C4 II is the DynAudio sound, I'm all for it! I may enjoy other products, but this speaker is in the sit and listen a long time category in my book.

Hi, I did not have time to respond past couple of days.
Here is what I think: Dynaudio C2's probably are not a contender to Revel Salon2's. The C4's on the other hand probably are. Sapphires were not (I auditioned them extensively and prefer my current setup). And to answer Vinw, I haven't listened C4s as they were slightly more expensive than the Salon2s and I had no more room to go otherwise I would end up getting divorced. That was the reason of my original post asking Ryan how he compares the two.

On the other hand to Rower30, I have Gamut D3i pre amp and D200i power amp that I think matches with Salon2s very very nicely. By experience, in no way 150watts is good enough for this range of speakers (and I do not play loud). The same probably applies to C4s as they are not known to be efficent speakers. I think 200w/ch is bare minimum in this range otherwise you end up loosing significant detail. So I totaly do not agree with the generalization that "smaller amps sound better"

Now having said all of this, and this is very subjective, I find Contour S 5.4 the most bang for the buck in all Dynaudio range (I used to have Dali Helicon 400 MkIIs and listened to Contour 3.4 and 5.4 for comparison). Above that you get more detail and more clarity for a significant more sum of money, from what I heard from people that owns and trades high end gear frequently. Some but not all of them also mentions what I confirmed by listening Sapphires (lifeless). And yes definitely to my ears they are unnecessarily brighter than Salon2s. I know this is subjective but this is what I think.

...By experience, in no way 150watts is good enough for this range of speakers (and I do not play loud). The same probably applies to C4s as they are not known to be efficent speakers...

Nope, reality can't agree with that. More stuff in the signal path equals worse sound...just louder. Adding more output pairs REDUCES WHAT DISTORTION? You DO NOT need VOLUME for detail! Leaves blowing down a street on a fall aren't loud, and sound glorious! A speaker that needs LOUD to have RESOLUTION has a BIG problem (it doesn't have any resolution!). Where is even 150 Watts in shuffling feet and rustling leaves, the cough in the Audience, the breath of the composer gliding across the microphone? You don't need a gorilla to make those sounds in real life to hear them, and a good speaker doesn't either. Micro dynamic details CAN NOT be forced. You have it or you don't. It's there or it's just LOUD.

Sure, I hear people "repeat" the more power with the C4's. I listened for six hours two times in a row with 150-watt amps and there was ZERO problem at 85 SPL average in a BIG room (better than 4,000 feet squared). The speakers are 89 dB SPL sensitivity, which not exactly terrible. So I didn't not "hear" the party line, I HEARD! The C4 series II and report they have GREAT low SPL resolution. Yes, they go way loud with 150 watts. What impressed me about this speaker was the sound as it was humming along at maybe 70 dB SPL!! playing Dire Straights. Open, clear, full, solid imaging...simply amazing. They refuse to close-up or lose dynamics at low SPL's. THAT is the mark of a good speaker. Yelling teens trying to sing on who has talent need not apply. Paul Simon on the other hand...delightful.

So go as big as you want on the amp, but a smaller simpler circuit will give better sound all things being the same. You don't keep jamming a signal through more stuff and keep things intact. No, never, ain't going to happen. You are heading in the wrong direction, and one that is expensive to "force" good sound out of. It's like a 4,000-pound Mercedes can be made fast (and expensive!), but what's the point when a smaller car does it SO much better?

If a speaker can't play softly, I have learned to pass on them. NOTHING will fix their musical noise floor. No detail doesn't just appear when you turn-up the volume, you're listening to something LOUD, but it isn't detail. I wish LOUD fixed detail, I'd have a bunch of CD's to fix that way!

I'll probably be using ODYSSEY KIZMET mono amps for the sound at the price, but I will NEVER defend bigger is "better" at resolution and detail. It just isn’t so at the very best level of perfection and micro dynamics and detail.

The same can be said for speakers, all things being the same efficiency equals WAY less intermodulation distortion and cone break-up. And, those 10-35 watts class A thresholds in A/B amps hum along 90% of the time. You got to like that.

Yep, there are trade-offs with Tube amps and super efficient speakers (Coincidents and such)…mainly dynamics in the bass. But you can not argue the superb midrange micro dynamics in a good tube set-up, where MOST of the music is, even though most of the power isn't! A tube's audio stage is about as simple as it gets. Tube music floor detail is impressive but alas, the systems that get you there are too aggravating day-to-day. Maybe when I retire I'll have time to futz with that.

For now, A click and play out of standby mode system is more appropriate, with exquisite low volume capable speakers.

C4 can be harsh if somebody tries listen rock or quick dance-lets say trance music.
contour s5.4 rocks better with such type of music.Because they are less smooth,the cause is diffrent drivers from confidence line.

Even the harshest sounding speakers can be tamed down with the right components and set up . But would the C-4's sound harsh without such care ?
I've heard them in two different systems and in both cases they were excellent but a bit harsh for my tastes . On the other hand I've heard the Salon's many times and could do nothing but smile .