I really liked the Minimax Plus. I do wish EE would abandon the tube or dedicate themselves to it 100%, instead of making it a switch.
Most people don't get the chance to audition DACs in their own homes back-to-back. This has been very interesting to me as MOST of the time we could not tell them apart. The differences I outlined were so subtle that we really strained to hear them. The differences were only noticeable when comparing a DAC heard minutes before. I seriously doubt anyone would be able to easily quantify the differences.
And so, after hearing these units back to back in my system and a friends, here is how I rate them:
#1 - Rega DAC
Best overall performance from good bass to a highly accurate sounding midrange and HF. The best DAC for creating the sense of "live" from live recordings & best soundstage. But NOT all that forgiving on recordings that are poor. Choose this DAC for live jazz and more modern classical recordings. This is also the champ for non-studio vocals. This thing sounds like a TT at times!
#2 - EE Minimax Plus
Really a tie with the Rega. The sweetest sounding of the group, perhaps not the most accurate, but undeniably engaging to listen to. More forgiving of poor recordings. We did not like the tube. Choose this DAC for older recordings, from classical to rough-around-the-edges Jazz. If you love violin recordings, the Minimax is a stunner.
#3 - Centrance DacMini
Kind of a giant killer at the price. This unit has midrange depth and detail that is better than the EE or Rega, but it falls short on bass by sounding soft. The high end is detailed, but we note a bit of grain. Form-factor with Mac Mini is a homerun. You can buy this DAC and probably be happy for a long time.
#4 - W4S DAC II
Most expensive and best reviewed and yet we liked it least. Sounded too bright at times, and had a narrow soundstage compared to the others. This is the DAC that fails to sound like analogue and yet it's still very good, especially when it comes to detail. Detail freaks will like this DAC.
Cheers,
Rob |
The Mimimax Plus is a SS component with a tube that can be employed. As with the original Minimax we found the SS mode superior, though by the slimmest of margins. Swapping the tubes could change that, but the main point is that there was nothing "tube-like" about the Mimimax Plus. It sounded like a very good DAC in either mode. As my friend found out, the Rega's filter choices allow for plenty of subtle changes. The Rega's midrange sounded more like what we'd expect from a tube and the Mimimax Plus had more sweetness in the extended frequencies with the tube switched out. The Centrance midrange was more tube-like than either of them, transparent, lush and layered.
If there is one thing I would change in the Mimimax it would be the removal of the tube. Focus fully on a single design choice and I believe the Minimax could be better than the Rega. As it stands I find them about the same overall. If someone told me they had wild differences I'd call the guys in the white suits! And I think a lot of people would be surprised how wonderful the DacMagic sounds against these units, with strengths of its own.
In the end I don't buy a component so that I can alter it. If I choose it, it's because it sounded "right" from the start and had synergy with my system. Most people buy a DAC without hearing it in their own system against other units. It's hard to pull off. My friend owns several DACs and Rich at Signature Sound loaned me a Rega DAC for a week so I could carefully compare. My word is far from final. Synergy with your system could mean (and probably would) different impressions.
Once again I'd like to point out that these units sounded MOSTLY the same. Differences were very subtle and you really have to stop listening to the music to keep track of it all. I would worry more about choosing any other component before being concerned with DAC choice. As I'm slowly learning that a Mac Mini with any of these DACs sounds superior to expensive CD players....it's a long road ahead!
Rob |
I think EE believes they do tubes best. But in the case of their DAC, the SS mode is incredibly good. Some folks are removing the tube and reporting that the unit is even better that way-not sure why. My friend is going to try some different tubes and then in SS without.
Rob |
Try this link at Audiocircle (If the link is allowed)
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=98695.0
That's one of several I remembered reading, with at least a couple of people pulling the tube entirely and running in SS. Does this void the warranty? Does the removal of the tube tax the design in some way?
In any case it seems there are plenty of people enjoying the SS mode of this unit and many are messing with the tubes. Let me know if you get to hear the Rega DAC as I'd be interested in your opinion.
Rob
|
I agree with Tubegroover. Check first.
Rob |
Well said, Bill. I'm not a fan of tube DACs but plenty of people seem to love them. Mt friend is not happy that the Minimax Plus works best sans tube, but my answer to that is SO WHAT? It's still a great DAC and he could also try some tube rolling. I think that some people's systems "prefer" a solid state DAC or CD player. In my case my Manley/Merlin gear appears to be such a system.
PS: I'll take all of the credit for this tweak! I did read about it elsewhere, but if it goes viral, please send my tweak-of-the-month check to me! ;-)
Rob |
Charles,
I don't know many people who assume a tube DAC is best. In fact most shy away from them in my experience. I do think think there's a bit of expected "mojo" from tubes, but I think it's usually to be found with amps and pre-amps. I find my Manley amp magical and along with my Merlin speakers those tubes do amazing things. But when I've tried source components with tubes I've been generally underwhelmed. The Minimax Plus (and the original version) only reinforce the case for me. But the Minimax has a victory by including the ability to run with some seriously good SS DACs, all the while using it's glowing tube circuit to excite the tube-fans, even if they may quietly pull the tube and store it away safely until they trade up to the next great DAC.
Rob |
MrTennis, this is not a small group of people reporting this in their systems. Even before he got the Minimax Plus we had both read numerous forum comments from folks who felt it was a better SS DAC than with the tube.
Why have it? You like it with the tube, so you get to choose! This weekend the Rega will go head-to-head with the Minimax Plus with tube removed, but in my system. I have a feeling it will be a tough shoot-out. The cool thing is that all of these DACS sound amazing with a MacMini. My friend is certain that his Mac-Mini/Dac combo is besting his ARC CD7 player (I have yet to hear them compared). In fact my Mac-Mini/Rega DAC combo is easily better than the Audio Aero Prima tube player I had tried, as well as the Jolida 100 which was well modded. It's a new world of audio out there.
Rob |
One thing is for certain. I've certainly come to doubt the idea that you can walk into a shop and seriously compare these DACs. Even with two hours of careful listening in a system we know well, the differences between the Rega and Minimax were very small. If someone snuck into my listening room and swapped them I doubt I'd notice during listening! The owner of the Minimax preferred the Rega because it did one thing slightly better and he was USED to the sweet highs. I preferred the Minimax because it did one thing slightly better and I am USED to the deep soundstaging. But it was almost splitting hairs. I'd be a liar to call either DAC "better" than the other.
On the other hand....the DAC/Mac upgrade is substantial over the CD players I've been hearing. I'm surprised there's so much skepticism about it. After all we're looking at separates vs all-in-one systems. The CDP is a motor driven transport in the same box with a DAC. Now with my new Mac Mini I have a separate CD reader/ripper, DAC and a computer tweaked for audio. It's more "high-end" by any measure!
I think some audiophiles question a computer based system because they see it as lower cost, but that's hardly the case. With the Mini, DAC, Software, memory, cables and cords you are almost certainly going to hit the 2-3K range with ease and that's with a midrange DAC like the Minimax or Rega.
Rob |
MrTennis....great that you are enjoying your system and I have no doubt that it's excellent sounding. I think most of the systems owned by members here vary from very good to outstanding. But we all have different goals with our systems. Some seek that live sound, others want HF resolution even if it makes for a bright system and others prefer a rolled off experience which they find less fatiguing. It's why there are so many variations of DACs, Speakers, power cables...and mustard!
I like my mustard transparent, details and just a bit spicy!
Rob |
Tubegroover....agree 100%
The W4S DAC 2 and Centrance were in my system for about 3-4 hours. How much time was spent with each I couldn't say. The original Minimax was played for about a solid hour against the Rega, also in my system.
The Rega was transplanted to my friend's system for a mid day comparison with the Minimax plus, but probably not more than 2 hours total. I have been enjoying the Rega DAC for a couple of weeks as it is now my "pick" of the group so far.
I'm certain ALL of these DACs have quite a bit more performance to explore. We were cognoscente of this and always remained aware that we were really comparing initial impressions. Perhaps the W4S would come in first if we lived with it for a while. He's been enjoying the Centrance and Minimax Plus and I've been loving the Rega DAC.
When I say that ALL of these DACs delivered great performance, it's the one statement that I make without reservations of any kind. You get a lot of performance and flexibility from all of them. I'm new to computer audio and all of my doubts have been quickly erased and I have yet to even get into seriously dialing it all in. Folks looking to spend 4-5K on a CD player should hear what a Mac/DAC combo can do when done well. I'm still shocked!
Rob
|
Mr. Tennis,
I've heard a lot of tube gear recently. I'm on board with the "tube sound" fully (that's why I own a tube amp and will never go back to SS power), but I don't buy or hear it's advantages in a DAC, quite the opposite. I have heard two other tube DACs which cost quite a bit more than the group being discussed.
I believe there is a expectation for tubes to do certain things for the sound that they just don't do in certain components. There was just nothing better about the tube mode of the Minimax Plus. When the owner tries other tubes I'll report back.
Rob |
MrTennis,
I do agree that the tube DACs sound different, but I do not find them Euphonic in any manner consistant with what I expect from tubes. Mainly what I hear from them is a midrange that is LESS transparent and thicker to the point that it is distracting. In fact there is nothing tube-like in their sound that I find pleasing as I do with my Manley tube amp or my previous Rogue gear.
The Minimax Plus is a excellent DAC that allows one to hear this 1st hand. The fact that the original Minimax exhibited some of the same weaknesses with my system as the Plus version in the owner's system points to something I attribute to the tube stage. In SS mode these DACs are sweet, detailed and balanced right out of the gate. This evening the owner of the Plus called me to say that the DAC is so good in SS mode he really has no desire to take it further, except to see if he can topple my Rega!
The question is simple: Have you done any experimentation with the Minimax Plus in SS and tube mode or done any tube rolling? What did you hear? In the end there's just one person to please and that's you! What I hear or think should be of passing interest at best. If you like the DAC with the tube "on" then you're good-to-go. With so many variables it's unlikely to get a consensus and even if everyone agrees, that should not effect your own conclusions should they be different.
My Rega continues to burn in and it's now sounding better than ever. I've never heard such analogue sound from digital sources before. And I can't believe the low costs of these DACs. It's a great time for this hobby I think.
Rob |
Mrtennis....agreed it will cost you nothing.
The issue I and my friends have is that the tube DAC's having nothing "tube-like" in their character that we can hear. All of that tube sound comes from the amps and pre amps. Try pulling the tube (later on when you're done with the new tube) and spend some time listening. The Minimax gains too much sans tube to be ignored.
Still, even with the tube engaged, the Minimax still sounds pretty much like the other SS DACs we listened to. The tonal character is the same. The differences are of the "hard" variety....high frequencies, soundstage and midrange transparency. When I say "hard differences" I mean they are not really up for debate as anyone could hear them.
My old Thorens turntables never had tubes and the Rega/Mac combo sounds a lot like 'em!
Rob |
Foster 9,
I think that most people buying tube components expect a certain level of DIY. My friend has, for now, abandoned the Minimax Plus and is using the ARC and Centrance DACs. He continues to report that the Centrance midrange is the best of anything he's heard and I agree.
Meanwhile my Rega continues to sound better and better. I am upgrading IC soon and adding a better PC. I've heard it's quite sensitive to power cables and it certainly sounded too bright with the inexpensive Pangea I tried.
Happy Holidays!
Rob |
Removing the tube is the way to go. My friend found it superior in the midrange even after trying some nice borrowed tubes. In our estimation there was something "thick" sounding in the tube stage and changing tubes did not alter it.
He sold it because he prefered my Rega and the Centrance DACs. Part of the issue bugging him was that he bought a tube DAC and really ended up with SS. He did not get what he paid for, or at least didn't like it. I wonder what EE would have if they focused their efforts 100% on the SS stage...? A giant killer perhaps? As it stands the EE Minimax Plus is a good DAC for the money, but there are better ones depending on your system and needs.
Cheers,
Rob |
