Don’t matter how you get there, just that you get there so CONGRATS! I will say I’ve never heard anyone say the Terminator sounds “glassy,” but there it is. Enjoy man, and Goodonya! Love hearing stories like this as they’re few and far between.
Endgame Vocal+ DAC Help: Terminator Plus 12th vs. Chord DAVE vs. Holo May vs. Weiss502.
tl;dr: Read title. I like vocals with spacing, depth and atmosphere. VOCALS. I have a small, shitty space - one side of an closed porch; very near-feild computer-setup. Consider myself a whore for detail. Was surprised to find detail-praised DACs to be harsh (e.g., RME ADI). Want thick, dark/rich, vocal forward, no loss in detail. Hate thin, harsh, and smeared/muddy sound. Julien Baker. Hold my hand and mentor me.
The atmospheric, depth of field, concentration stuff like this: https://youtu.be/rNEZlRgebwQ is something I love, but, without lyrics, I lack emotional engagement.
Setup (shitty near-field, no choice):
Audio Streaming Services or Youtube to
BeQuiet! PC Build - USB out to
Topping D90 MQA (to be replaced)
to Better Cables XLR
to Benchmark HPA4
to Classe' SIGMA AMP 2
to Wilson Audio Duette 2's
Headphones: Hifiman Arya
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Ok, I always feel guilty asking for help; still, finding any advice otherwise is difficult.
I'm looking to get an endgame DAC; I have the budget for about $20k worth of gear, if it's blow-me-away sort of stuff. I've read and watched virtually every review (about 20 or so reads; about 20 or so youtube reviews, each). I can find on these (and other) DACs; so, I feel somewhat equipped with the general perceptions of each.
Still, I'm not sure how these will best suit my wants for a DAC.
Best I can tell, each of these DACs have their own camps of support, and each comes with some distinct, common-to-review, characteristics:
Chord DAVE: Bright, Atmospheric, Big, Depth, Mega Detail, Harsh on Femal Vocals at times, but other than that, I've read nothing but cum-stained reviews for this ugly thing.
Denafrips T+12: Smooth, Medium Dark, Juicy, Rich, Big, Atmospheric, Not as Vocal Forward, Changes the sound but in a good way*, Some say it backs off the lead vocals when other vocals are present.
Holo May: Smooth, 'Correct', Neutral, Big, Vocal more forwardish
Weiss502: Rich, Juicy, Studio Master Tape, Less Color
*I do not care if the DAC changes the music - most the artists I love seem to be TERRIBLE in the mixing/mastering dept. Like TERRIBLE. Why every artist doesn't listen to their masters on every level of dac-to-speaker combo with particular emphasis on the sort of setups/playback their target demo has absolutely boggles the mind.
I almost exclusively listen to slower, guitar/piano-based, female-vocal heavy music (e.g., Julien Baker - a lot of Julien Baker). So, I'm looking to get a DAC best suited for that sort of music.
Essentially, making this (I know, youtube, but I love this recording) sound as good as possible is what I'm after: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlVp9W6LvTQ
That skinny vocal mic in the Tiny Desk concerts has a level of detail I love.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZdnq5tN5vI
I'd like to preserve that sort of detail, but the vocals could be a touch warmer/fuller/juicier.
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Here's a bit of background experience and taste-to-product preferences with which I am aware:
I have auditioned the iFiDSD Pro, have owned the Matrix X-Sabre I, the RME ADI-II, and currently use the Topping D90 mQa. Of the 3 (but only after I gave the strange idea of burn-in a try), the Matrix was my favorite - I think because of the spaciousness of the sound.
I do not have experience with FPGA or R2R dacs.
I consider(ed?) myself a detail whore ever since hearing the Elton John (self-titled) album in SACD - some 20ish years ago - the vocal isolated parts were really, really pleasingly detailed. This was played over a Marantz sr7007, the same year's Marantz SACD multi player, and with a Rotal 1075 AMP feeding BW 600 series floorstanders with bi-wired silver audio cable.
However, when listening to the RME ADI on my youtube favs, I found the whole thing absurdly detailed - but, fatiguing and harsh at times. I realize some of this is source - youtube. I keep referencing the RME ADI because, compared to the others, it was a detail winner, but, to my ears, was harsh and a tiny bit thin.
So, perhaps I am not the detail fiend I thought I was - I'm actually not sure.
I can say that I love the sound of the microphone used in the PASTE Mag concerts - that crispness that seems to pick up significant detail gives me the right emotional connection. Again, making this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlVp9W6LvTQ - sound as good as I can is what I'm after.
End of the day, I think I am looking for the most engaging dac for vocals - I am definitely a vocals whore, and a sucker for good, sad lyrics. I HATE anything muddy, congested, or blurred, and, after a lot of paying attention, I seem to be sensitive to harshness and listening fatigue. I realize detail and harshness/fatigue are often at odds. I have extended my budget to the absurd to tackle this.
At any rate, after literal years of research, this is where I am.
Can you help?
~Nick
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Thanks, all. I should say, despite the Denafrips not being for me, Alvin at Vinshine was awesome. I have never experienced such kind and thorough customer service. And, I think the guy who mentioned tubes being what I needed is correct. While I had a Wilsenton tube amp, it wasn't the best presentation, and, even then, it sounded better than the solid state. Strangely, my previous set up was: B&W 602s3 Classe Sigma AMP2 Topping D90MQA The B&Ws were just fine with the solid state, but moving into the Wilson Duette 2s seemed to change that pretty dramatically. It also bears mentioning that my set up is VERY near-field as it is at a computer desk. Changing the tweeter tuning device in the separate crossover of the Duettes to something which dampened the highest of highs also made a much needed change. While the B&Ws never sounded harsh, the Wilsons were harsh until I discovered that adjustment. I also filled the metal cavities of my speaker stands with clay kitty litter - this also made a huge difference as it stopped some ringing of the stands that I couldn't place for a while. So, while the Synthesis A40 made a world of difference, those other tweaks also really helped the sound, as well. To anyone with hollow, metal speaker stands, go do yourself a favor - fill them! Some use lead shot, some use other stuff. Clay kitty litter I found to be super dead; so, I went with that. But really, for a MAJOR improvement, you can't do anything cheaper. Don't hesitate. Get a funnel, get a 50lb bag, and go nuts. It will, hereforward, be the first thing I do if ever I should find myself with another hollow speaker stand. Oh! And Blu-Tac for attaching speakers to stands. Seems weird, but if you cannot anchor them directly, the stuff works.
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The latest thinking in regards to speakers appears to be not to solidify, or couple them to the floor/stands but de-couple them, and absorb internal cabinet vibrations. There are plenty of reviews on absorption and isolation products for speakers, some of the best I have read are from Townshend, and I know a few in here use them @carlsbad2 ? some of the more budget minded ones are from Gaia, which I have; a convincing video is below. Oh and thanks for this thread! It was a good read :)
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- 32 posts total