Esoteric P03 - D03

Hi,
I wish I could answer your questions I never had the X01D2 and P03D03 on hand simultaneously. Here is what I have had: DCS Elgar Plus full stack vs P03D03 vs Wadia 921/931. Then sold DCS. Added Playback Designs MPS5 and compared all three. Added Esoteric UX1 (standalone, as transport, also for DVD-A). There is one disc available in DVD-A and SACD that I tried, a Brahms Symphony 1 conducted by Marin Alsop. They have different sound, not sure if they use the same re-mastered file. I will go back and try again since it has been a while. Sold the Wadia (regret it). Sold the P03D03 (don't regret it). Added Zanden 5000 Signature. Added Boulder 2020. These days, I find the areas that I remark are all very similar between the 5000S, MPS5 and Boulder. Odd since the 5000S is NOS and tube, the MPS is 2xDSD and the Boulder has its own sophisticated digital filter at about 16x. The Boulder has by far the most sophisticated analog section. In any event, I sold the 5000S (still have a 5000 MkIII) and am acquiring an X01 with the original P01 style mechanism so I can upgrade it to D2). If we were to work by the transitive property, one might be able to extrapolate a hierarchy of my preference (and tangentially, the sonic properties).

I had an X01 a long time ago and found it a bit sharp edged and tonally bright. Since then I have changed my thinking and look for mixing and matching based on what I want to hear at a given time. This is likely due to having tried many of the top competitors in my own system, not on audition but paid for, simultaneously and with other variables held constant (preamp, amp, speakers).

Babybear, I will let you know my impressions, albeit based on recall. I only liked the P03D03 set on DSD upsampling; as PCM the sound seemed to have a tinge of tinniness. As DSD, the sound became more (too) diffuse, easier to listen to but with a noticeable loss in image clarity and transient definition. I sold the P03D03 because the MPS5 had the same qualities but with a less diffuse sound that I prefer.

ClassicJazz, thanks for info. Did you try different cables and power cords with it? You are the first person I find that doesn't like this particular Combo, and specially who recalls as an Esoteric attribute diffuse or lacking image clarity. If something I read people actually complaining about too much of the opposite. Anyway, can be system / room specific or a matter of taste, but was just wondering.

If you did not like the P03-D03, why are you willing to try out the D2? Would not trying out a different manufacturer one box solution make more sense?

For what I can be of help here, not having heard the Combo still, there is a chance you may like the D2 for redbook playing, since it uses different DACs than the 03s, and maybe it has a somewhat different sound print. However for DSD, I think you may not like the D2 either: uses the same DACs as the combo but only one per channel.

On the other hand, I had the X03-SE home for some 3 months, and although using different DAC configuration than the D2, the sound was similar in nature (although the D2 is clearly better with a more rich, complex sound). So there is a chance if you did not like Esoteric 03s, you may have trouble with Esoteric digital sound in general. Just guessing but could be worth you give it a long try before you commit?

Best
Eli

Read this thread with interest. I upgraded from the X-01 Limited to P-03/D-03, added the G-ORB clock more than a year later. I've never heard the D-2 version of the X-01, so don't know how much better the D-2 is than the Limited, although the upgrade to Limited was pretty significant. The P-03/D-03 was a dramatic improvement over the Limited, especially in SACD, in precisely the ways you have all noted. But the real point I wanted to make is by themselves the P-03/D-03 did red book best, at least to my ears, with DSD conversion. But the minute I added the G-ORB clock, there seemed something a bit over-inflated about the DSD conversion, which I had never heard before. When I switched to 176.4 there seemed to be something cleaner and more natural about all red book playback. Whether this means the clock so improved 176.4 upconversion that it outperformed the DSD, or uncovered some negative artifact in DSD conversion, I don't know. But just as taking out the clock after listening for a week demonstrates how important the clock is by its absence, switching back to DSD conversion after a week of listening at 176.4 (with the clock) made it clear to me that I didn't want to go back. Anyway, that's what my ears tell me; certainly you have to listen to yours. (P.S. For purposes of completeness of information, I use Stealth Varidig Sextet digital cables between the P-03 and D-03.)

Thanks for feedback Mgottlieb,

That is more close to what I've read in other places, when comparing X01 to the Combo.

Regarding Limited vs D2, I don't think there is a difference in Red Book reproduction (not at least big), since it is basically the same set up and digital conversion scheme. What the D2 added is native DSD reproduction with a new set of capable DACs on top of the PCM capable ones. I would imagine the D2 is an improvement vs limited in SACD, but not that much when it comes to Red Book.

If you say that P03-D03 was a dramatic improvement vs Limited, it should be the same vs D2.

However the step forward regarding SACD, on paper should not be as great when compared to the Limited for the reasons above. Still although P03-D03 shares the same chips for native SACD DSD conversion than the D2, the combo implements a quad diff scheme per channel, while the D2 has only one chip per channel. This alone, plus design improvements and superior power management should yield a good advance in SACD.... All in theory according to tech specs.

The improvement over CD PCM should be basically the same from D2 to combo and from Limited to Combo..

Do you fell either with DSD without clock, or at 176,4 with the clock, the combo also was a big improvement when playing redbook?

For cables I intend to use Synergistic Research: D3 digital interconnects, and Hologr. D power cord. The power cord works great on the D2 already. I will need an extra one if I decide to go this path for the transport. The D3 never hear it, but will revert on it if I finally go for it.

Thanks
Eli

Yes, everything about the P-03/D-03 was better than anything else I've heard in either redbook or SACD, but I haven't heard either the P-01/D-01 or the Scarlatti stack.