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Finally found THE SPEAKER!!!

I have been a HiFi guy starting at 12 years old with my father passing along the love. We would spend almost every weekend auditioning speakers looking to find the perfect system. We purchased many speakers over the years and they all had their pros and cons, but the trade off always seemed to be nuanced and delicate vs. dynamic and punchy. When auditioning speakers people would always ask what kind of music do you like to listen to? Rock, female vocals, classical, etc... We had/have eclectic taste and would listen to it all. Why could't a speaker just play all of it?!?! Anyway my love for music, sound, etc... became my profession as I am now an Oscar nominated Supervising Sound Editor with well over 150 movies under my belt.

For the last 5 years I have been looking for speakers that can play films at reference levels with all the detail and punch, yet when I want to listen to music can give that nuanced and detailed imaging, space, air, articulation without being harsh and fatiguing. I have listened to SO MANY speakers and spent hundreds of hours auditioning everything I could find. I would fall in love with something for music and then try play one of my films at reference level and it just never gave me the impact I was looking for. I get it - hard to move a lot of air and still be nuanced and articulate. There are some excellent compression drivers/horns that can do the impact stuff, but for me they always have that harsh edge when it comes to music. The flip side with dome type tweeters I have found things have to be pushed to the edge to try to give that theatrical impact. Looking for the quick transient response of an electrostatic, with the punch of compression driver type of system.

Then a dealer recommend I listen to some speakers from Wisdom Audio. I have to admit I was pretty skeptical at first. I read about these and it all sounded like marketing to me, but the dealer I was talking with said he was blown away by them. So I reached out to the company and setup a demo. They use planar magnetics which is not exactly new, but is very difficult to manufacture. I asked them to have one of my films available to listen to. I chose one that I knew extremely well that has a LOT of dynamic punch as well as subtle nuance. I live in Los Angeles and the company is in Carson City, Nevada. I bought an airplane ticket and I was off. I was treated to a tour of the factory and shown how the speakers were made. USA manufactured!! Then we spent a few hours listening to all types of music on different ranges of speakers. I LOVED what I was hearing with the music part of the audition. Then I asked to hear my film in their theater. I expected to be disappointed based on what I had experienced in the past. Then it happened... I heard the film play and it sounded AMAZING! These speakers could do it all!!! No compression, no fatigue, HiFi sound and still able to play theatrical film tracks as they are meant to be heard. In fact - better! I called my wife in disbelief that my search for "The Speakers" was finally over! I even called my father to tell him what I had just heard. It was the impressive! I remind you - I do this for a living!

Since we are undergoing a major remodel at our home, my wife expected that the family room was going to be filled with big speakers as she has become accustomed to living with me. With some of these Wisdom Audio speakers, they are actually designed to be flush mounted in the wall. I thought there is no way a wall mounted speaker could ever sound as good as a traditional speaker. I was so wrong!! So not only did I find the perfect speaker, but not big boxes in the room 3 feet away from any walls! My wife was thrilled.

If you have never heard speakers by Wisdom Audio you need to find a dealer where you can audition them, or fly to the factory for a private demo!

Best,
Andrew
drewde
invalid
1,189 posts
 
Thank you for your response. I have never heard the Duetta Sigs. I bet they sound AWESOME!!! I am now a fan of the technology.

How do they hold up over time. This is still a concern of mine. I am so used the traditional speaker designs and how they hold up. Any thoughts on how this technology fares over time??

Thank you!




The foam that is between the clamps and bass foils deteriorates and then they can resonate very bad. There is a diy fix for this, but the current foil manufacturer frowns upon this if you ever want then replaced.
drewde OP
53 posts
 
@ericsch Yes I am starting with the basics. Again you and others are complaining that they dynamic range of Theatrical Film mixes is too great for your liking. Period.

When the the film says "Directed by Ericsch" (or whatever your name is) then you can decide how much dynamic range you want in your film. It appears many of those complaining prefer the limited dynamic range imposed by Broadcast TV. I can tell you from personal experience when you play those tracks in a Theatrical environment - It sounds horrible.

Here are some great examples of Classical pieces that also have tremendous Dynamic range. 

Mahler Symphony 9 - Claudio Abbado/Berlin (Deutsches Gram.)
Stravinsky 'Rite of Spring,' - Valery Gergiev/Kirov (Philips)
Shostakovich 10 - Karajan/Berlin (DG)
Sibelius 5 - Vanska/Lahti (BIS)
Beethoven 9 - Vanska/Minnesota (BIS)
Arvo Part - Lamentate (ECM)
Benjamin Britten "War Requiem" - Rattle (EMI)
Verdi Requiem - Abbado (EMI)
Brahms "German Requiem" - Klemperer (EMI)
Bartok "Concerto for Orchestra" - Reiner (RCA)
Beethoven 5&7th symphs - Kleiber (DG)
Tchaikovsky 6th Symph - Pletnev (Virgin)

Sure they do not have DX as one person mentioned, but if listening on a properly calibrated system (usually just the basics will suffice) one should be able to hear the DX. If the loud scenes are too loud for your personal preferences then you need to utilize some of the MANY built in compressors available to you. NOT decide for the rest of the film going audience that things need to be set to your liking.

More than likely you don't even LIKE the movies that you are complaining about... just a guess, but it is usually the case in my past experience. Is there a film you really like that has this problem. Someone mentioned Lord Of The Rings. I did not work on that series but am friends with many of those that did. In my opinion they are great sounding tracks. My kids actually watch a lot of those over and over on a smaller system setup at home Just some old B&W CDM 7 in 5.1 I bought when I first got married. All I could afford at the time. My kids will be playing these films in the background all the time and we don't really have any issues with things getting out of control.

And nobody has suggested that anyone has any hearing issues.

When we are mixing these films do you honestly think we just say wow things are too loud and we can't hear any of the dialogue so oh well... Really???

Not every film will have big dynamic range issues. It is relative to the content of the film. Most of the times I hear this complaint with regards to action films. A film like  MEET JOE BLACK is not going to pop up as a film with too much dynamic range because the story doesn't require it. But if you are watching Saving Private Ryan, Apollo 13, Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World, etc... well then the story content does demand and benefits from having the ability to go from a whisper to loud.

I don't know what else to say about the issue other than please use the MANY tools available to you so that you can enjoy films the way you want to watch them. But please don't feel the need to attack an entire community of people that have dedicated their lives to this craft because you don't like how films are mixed. You are completely entitled to your opinion as is everyone... but it is just that, your opinion.

By the way... most of us get our hearing tested at least on a yearly basis. Surprisingly many of us have hearing that is far better than what our age would suggest.

Also a reminder that HEARING and LISTENING are two completely different disciplines. One is passive and the other is active. 


dukeofdoowop
13 posts
 
Drew
You are extremely generous. I will admit that my room is a setup nightmare. Unfortunately, it is a small house and our living room must also serve as a....living room.  The room is 30 x 15. The long wall is all glass and overlooks the river, so the room focuses on the view. Accordingly, the OLED monitor and speakers are arranged in front of the glass along the long wall and no room to move them away from the wall. Conversely, the listening position is only 12 feet away and the subwoofer is in a corner at the end of the wall. I know - audiophile heresy. 

I think the bottom line is I must rely on electronic tweaking. I think of Audessey as a beginning point (I ran two reference points), but the infinite options beyond that are mind blowing. It may well be that compensating for this setup nightmare is beyond the capabilities of Audessey. 

Yes the DX is low overall, so I crank the volume and get yelled at when the shooting starts. We also use captions a lot. I think this is a fairly common problem that seems to get worse the better the sound system. I have several systems, in other rooms, of lesser quality and have less of this problem.

If necessary I will have my dealer's tech come in and evaluate my settings.Unfortunately, he is 70 miles away. In the meantime, I very much appreciate your thoughts.

Dan

drewde OP
53 posts
 
I have received some other posts that I believe have been removed before I could respond still complaining that this is spam, advertisement, etc...

If you look at when I joined this group it was in May 7, 2017. Boy I sure played the long game to start a simple advertising thread!!!??!?!

I just didn't feel I had anything really exciting to post regarding my experience with a speaker until now. I get the weekly recap on Friday from Audiogon and just click on the topics that interest me. Sometimes nothing grabs me and I just delete the email. Sometimes almost all of the threads interest me.

I enjoy the group and plan on continuing. I have also refrained from posting once or twice in the past because these things can become a HUGE time suck. I am more than happy to help those that I can via email. If you live in LA I would be happy to come by and help out as well. But I am usually SO swamped with work that any free time I do have I spend with my family. 

I knew when I started this particular thread there would be some flack - It's fine and I enjoy the discussion. I don't enjoy insults to me or those I work with for well over 25 years in this industry. 

Thank you to all here who are interested in discussing, debating without resorting to ignorant attacks.

Best,
Drew
snbeall
63 posts
 
drewde,

I have salivated over Wisdom Audio for years. Decades actually. The closest I came were some BG Radia 520dx made by Bohlender Graebener at the turn of the millennia. BG manufactured the planar units for Wisdom, started by Graebener when he left BG. Unfortunately BG did not survive the death of Bohlender. Wisdom carries on the tradition and elevates it.

That you have experienced Meridian 8000’s and moved on says something about your point of reference. Meridian is where I personally went following BG. I am now dabbling w/Thiel, but would leave them all for Wisdom. If I could afford it! 
You ask about amplification. Unless something has changed, the Wisdom universe is similar to Meridian. It is all intended to work together as a system. Their speakers are all active - in the sense that there is no internal passive crossover. They require a preamp/processor/active DSP crossover unit and are bi or tri amped depending on the model. Although you can probably substitute your own power amplification stage. I would strongly suggest the Hypex of Purify modules based D class multichannel amplifiers. You’re going to need a lot of channels of amplification and these do it not only efficiently but with best specs.

The inwall or on wall nature is I believe their strongest attribute. Especially as it goes for movies. I find large in room speakers - which to provide the best sound must necessarily be out in the room- to be very distracting.

They are a complex system and not unlike Meridian require a good and experienced dealer/installer to get the best result. Although with your background along with support from Wisdom, and plenty of $, you should experience Nirvana.

Good luck. 
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