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Front- vs. Down-Firing Subs and Amp Issue

A couple of assertions in the audio world have me perplexed as to how to select a subwoofer for my two-channel system.

Richard Hardesty makes the blanket statement in his Audio Perfectionist Journal that down-firing subs should never be used for high-end two-channel audio. Only front-firing subs are suitable for this application. I see, however, that some of the most-recommended subs on a'gon (Hsu TN series, ACI and REL come to mind) are down-firing (or up-firing in the case of Hsu.) Maybe the answer is that audiophile subs can't be purchased at the price point most mortals can afford, and the lower-priced subs just happen to be down-firing? Oh, Hardesty also says ported subs are not suitable for high-end audio; must go with a sealed box. Interesting.

The second assertion comes from Mike Barnes at nOrh, who says on his website that the plate amps used in 90% of subs today is crap and puts out only a fraction of power that is claimed. The sound that was rattling his windows and creating "earth-shaking bass" was not bass at all- it was distortion. He also states that he began tests in subwoofer development using the popular Peerless 12" woofer, which was literally shredded by a (non-plate) 150-watt amp.

So now I'm confused. Is it possible to buy a high-quality sub for relatively little money? I can't bring myself to spend $3-5k on a pair of speakers only to turn around and spend nearly that much on a sub. Oh, and then I hear that if I want the best possible configuration I need two subs at twice the price, making my subs more expensive than my speakers. Is this just a fact of life that I'll have to come to grips with if I don't want to buy speakers that go down to 20hz?

Thoughts?
aggielaw
sogood51
2,157 posts
 
"Richard Hardesty makes the blanket statement in his Audio Perfectionist Journal that down-firing subs should never be used for high-end two-channel audio."

I agree...the rest of your speakers are not down-firing are they? The exception may be subs that are used only for 50hz and below...the lower the better.

"The second assertion comes from Mike Barnes at nOrh, who says on his website that the plate amps used in 90% of subs today is crap and puts out only a fraction of power that is claimed".

True, many are rated even higher than my 150lb. Krell...most are junk, I own passive subs and use good amps with them.

There is a new breed of amps that may change some of this so plate sized amps could be the future?...(ICE based and others) of the so called digital types. (do a search here for more info).

Needing or not needing a sub is a factor of many things...tell us more about your room, needs, and components you will use in your system....music types could also play a factor.

Dave
aggielaw OP
267 posts
 
Thanks for the insight, Dave. A link to my system is: http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?vdone&1107477492&view

I have a Velodyne CT-120 sub in the system, which I think is not listed in the thread above. It sounds nice, but I keep wondering if it could sound better.

My room is approximately 11'x17'x8', set up on short wall. Acoustically, it's a nightmare, with a cinderblock exterior wall with large windows on the right and an open wall starting at 3' in front of the left speaker on the left. The front and rear walls are wood. There's an exterior door on the right wall toward the back, so the listening position is 4' from the back wall.

Music tastes are primarily progressive rock, soft rock, and jazz (I'm a big Chuck Mangione fan and like other upbeat jazz as well) with a bit of country and "world music" for want of a better description. Occasionally I listen to classical, but not as often as the other genres listed.

Thanks,
Howard
onhwy61's avatar
onhwy61
5,216 posts
 
If we limit the discussion to true subwoofers as opposed to add-on woofers, then there is absolutely no problem with down firing subwoofers. For instance REL touts their 2 channel oriented subwoofers as sub-bass systems. They are specifically designed to add not bass, but deep bass to existing full range speakers. A down facing driver is an excellent solution for such a situation.

Regarding subwoofer amps, it's just like anything else, some are crap some aren't. A dedicated sub amp doesn't have to be the most refined amp because it's only handling low frequencies where harmonic distortion is harder to hear and less offensive.

My experience is that two subs are better than one, but one great sub is better than two good subs.

Earlier today I saw that someone was selling a Monitor Audio sub for less than $500. They are great subs for music. BTW, they have both forward and down facing drivers.

What do you think of the Norhs?
matchstikman
205 posts
 
Onhwy61, besides REL, who else makes sub-bass systems, do you know? Vandersteen? I have full range drivers and a very, very budget subwoofer that I place behind my listening chair. It is crossed over at 40hz and it doesn't have much on volume. All it does it give anything below 40hz added weight. Most bass that I want comes from my full rnage mains, but sometimes they lack the grunt I want. The sub behind my chair gives it a tiny push.
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