Good, Neutral, Reasonably Priced Cables?

Tommy: As one goes higher in frequency, the signal tends to travel more towards the surface of the conductor. Consequently, as one goes lower in frequency, the signal tends to travel through a deeper cross-section of the conductor. By making the conductor very thin yet maintaining a very wide & flat surface, all of the signal is conducted evenly regardless of frequency. This reduces time smear and maintains a more consistent series resistance / impedance regardless of frequency. This is yet another factor as to why you could hear increased "liquidity" with improved harmonic structure and timing of the notes. That is, each note / frequency has a very similar electrical path, length, series resistance and amount of surface area to travel. We'll call this "equal rights for all frequencies" : )

While one can obtain excellent results as far as skin effect goes with very small gauge round conductors, the problem is that the smaller gauge increases series resistance. In order to get around this problem, now we have to run multiple conductors in parallel. We now run into the problem of which geometry to configure these conductors in, how do we maintain the same spacing / EM fields between the conductors of the same polarity and how do we configure the two different polarities using multiple different conductors and how do we keep all the conductors of the same exact length? As you can see, Goertz' solution is a very simple yet elegant solution to all of those questions. That is, they followed the old "KISS" rule ( Keep It Simple, Stupid ).

As far as Magnan goes, if you check in the archives, you'll find that i've made some positive comments about some of their interconnects. I've never used their speaker cables or their "conductive paint" interconnects, nor do i think i ever will. I wouldn't mind trying out their speaker cables though, but i sincerely doubt that i would run it "side by side" as they suggest. This increases the inductance, which reduces the bandwidth and creates more phase errors. Like i said, the Goertz flat speaker cable design is simple yet elegant and solves all of those problems. Sean
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What a sensory overload! For a moment I thought I was reading Miguel de Cervantes, English version!

Sean, it's time to put your house as collateral and have your amazing power cord design extruded and marketed. You should have no problems selling it. Send one pair to me and one pair to Lak. We'll gladly review them (I like Rhodium in my power plugs/terminals).

The way you describe power supply is similar to what I've done externally in my power delivery/noise control setup. Bueno. I think that the other (and more elegant) approach would be the way Albert Porter does his sound.

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Sean, thanks for the technical appraisal of zobel networks, I didn't follow all of it but I understand the basic principal of operation and why they are needed. This is of interest to me since I just ordered a pair of Goertz MI3 Biwires, and though they haven't arrived yet, I'm expecting the zobels to be sent along with the cables. Question: is it safe to try the cables without the zobels first, and if no negative effects are present, continue without the zobels? Or should they be inserted as a matter of course in any installation with Goertz cables? I'm using a Krell FPB200 and Magnepan 3.6's. Appreciate your advice.

Rooze

And the learning fun just never stops...

Rooze, FWIW, I've been using AG-2 biwires without the Zobels to connect a Rowland Concentra to Wilson-Benesch ACT-1s. No problems whatsoever. Given Sean's advice, I'm planning on installing the Zobels nevertheless- if there is no sonic difference, I'll leave them in just to be safe.

Sean, thanks for clarifying on skin effect. If one had to create a 'cliff's notes version' of the discussion that is somewhere between the full length explanation above and the 'equal rights for all frequencies' distillation, does it make sense to say that 'minimizing skin effect' actually means 'making the wire so thin that bulk signal propagation is eliminated, resulting in all signal propagation, at all frequencies, occurring in the skin of the cable'? In other words, does 'minimizing skin effect' actually mean 'maximizing skin propagation'?

Re. the Magnan cables- thanks for the tip- I'll go search the archives. It turns out Magnan now has a 'Reference' ribbon that seems to combine a narrower strip of their ultra-thin ribbon used in the 'Signature' cable with the Alpha-Core stacked ribbon structure. No need to place cables side by side for this model. I haven't a clue how they sound, but thought I'd point it out-

Magnan Reference

Cheers,

Psychic: One of my colleagues has some radical ideas about power cords and AC filtration. He has made claims to me about what he can do in this area and i'm trying to work with him on this. He's not been real specific with me as he likes toying with me i.e. trying to get me to think about things on a different level. Only problem is, we have very different schedules and right now, our priorities are very much in other places. I'm quite eager to see what he has come up with though as he's the smartest guy that i personally know in terms of electronics and design theory. The fact that he has more test equipment than Toys R Us has toys surely doesn't hurt either.

Rooze: If unsure, i always recommend the use of the Zobel's with Goertz cables. Before making specific recommendations to you though, i called up Krell and spoke to Roger. He wasn't familiar with Goertz and had to ask the engineers there several technical questions to get answers for me. We ended up coming down to the same conclusion. That is, this specific amp should probably be used with the Zobel's "just in case".

As a side note, Goertz cables aren't like most other speaker cables in certain respects. That is, bigger isn't always better. You have to look at the output impedance of the amp, the speaker load that you'll be driving, etc... It's my experience that MI-2 Veracity cables may be superior to MI-3 Divinity cables in most installations. This is due to the electrical characteristics of most amplifiers and speakers involved.

Like i said above, you want to match the cables electrical characteristics to the devices that it is linking together. I know that "male syndrome" i.e. "bigger is better" / "more is not enough", etc... is a hard thing to overcome, but when it comes to things like this, you really can overdue it. Going to their heavier gauge cables can create an impedance mismatch, which would actually lower the performance capacity of the ciruit. Granted, this may not be as severe as going to other cables that create a more drastic impedance related issue, but at the same time, we're shooting for optimum results here.

The obvious thing that most people think of when looking at "bigger" speaker cables would be the heavier gauge with its increased surface area, power handling and lower series resistance. As such, i can see why one would normally want to shoot for the "top of the line" cable, but that doesn't mean that such a cable would always be the best suited electrically or economically to the situation at hand. This is especially the case when dealing with a manufacturer that actually has some design integrity built into the various products that they offer at various price points.

Having said that, i called up and spoke to the folks at Goertz about your specific installation. Their first recommendation was exactly what you ordered i.e. the MI-3 Divinities in bi-wire form. The other alternative would be to use two individual pairs of MI-2 Veracity cables, one cable for the low's and the other for the highs. This would give you the same cross section area as the MI-3's while maintaining ( what i think ) is the most appropriate impedance.

Here's another point about Goertz that i like. It just so happens that this subject is being discussed in another thread pertaining to cable models and the price structure of various manufacturers. That is, the MI-3 is equivalent to two pairs of MI-2's in terms of surface area & materials used. As such, the MI-3 bi-wires are exactly the same cost as two pairs of MI-2's. Makes sense, huh???

On top of that, there is a linear progression of their cables in terms of how / why they are designed as they are. That is, as one progresses from one model to the next to the next, you can see the exact steps taken in terms of gauge / series resistance / surface area / nominal impedance. Their MI-1's start out at 13 gauge, the MI-2's are 10 gauge and the MI-3's are 7 gauge. In effect, as you step up in their cable line, you double your surface area and power handling and at the same time, reduce the nominal impedance to pass more current. How many other manufacturers are as fair with their pricing and / or logical with their design philosophy / product line? None that i know of.

My suggestion is to try the MI-3's and see what you think. If you aren't over-joyed with them, send them back and pick up a quad of MI-2's. It's the same cost and you'll only be out the cost of shipping. This will let you know for sure whether or not you like this cable within the confines of your system and you can always return them if not satisfied. Sean
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PS... If i were buying these cables, i would be ordering them with their silver spades. I don't really care for their rhodium spades and their banana connectors are terrible. As a side note, they use "real" silver, so the connections will tarnish over time. While you should clean them periodically ( all connections should be removed and cleaned periodically ), this one is not exactly a big deal. Silver oxide, the corrosion that forms on the surface of silver, is actually more conductive than copper is when it is still "fresh". That doesn't mean that you should let them go to the point of turning black, but at the same time, if you forget about this over a period of time, it's nothing to worry about.