Good, Neutral, Reasonably Priced Cables?


After wading through mountains of claims, technical jargon etc. I'm hoping to hear from some folks who have had experience with good, neutral, reasonably priced cables. I have to recable my entire system after switching from Naim and want to get it right without going nuts! Here is what I'm looking for and the gear that I have:

Looking for something reasonably priced-i.e. used IC's around $100-150. Used speaker cable around $300-400 for 10ft pair.

Not looking for tone controls. I don't want to try to balance colorations in my system. I'd like cables that add/substract as little from the signal as possible.

Looking for something easily obtainable on the used market i.e. that I can find the whole set up I need without waiting for months and months. I guess this would limit you to some of the more popular brands. Without trying to lead you, here are some I've been considering:

Kimber Hero/Silver Streak
Analysis Plus Copper Oval/Oval 9
Cardas Twinlink/Neutral Reference (Pricey)
Wireworld Polaris/Equinox

Here is my gear:

VPI Scout/JMW9/ATML170
Audio Research SP16
Audio Research 100.2
Rotel RCD 971
Harbeth Compact 7

I would really appreciate your help on this. Thanks, as always.
128x128dodgealum
Sean, Robert is ahead in this game and can scientifically explain everything he does (goes beyoncé what is being discussed here, but I'm not at liberty to discuss). His cotton insulated ribbon speaker cables are outstanding. Lak brought a set of MSE one time he came over.
I'll probably get boo'ed off of here, from all the "Monster Haters" but, one of the best cheaper cables i have heard, it the Monster Interlink Reference 2. I bought a one meter pair for $79, msrp is $99, it is a very nice sounding cable, pretty neutral from what i can tell. I have heard other people rave about this cable also, sharing most of my same sentiments.
Ok, I'll take the bait at the risk of getting schooled again as to one reason why most Mfg'rs don't engage in a thread like this...the debates gets old and usually all's most folks want to do is prove they're right. Though some folks enjoy the pedestal of "god on a stick" that's not a position I desire to set myself up as so...

I'll preface this post with a couple of things. First, I have no intention of debating with anyone what we do, why we do what we do and/or the legitimacy of it all. Our clients can speak to some of that if they wish to. I'll only say this: our customer satisfaction (no return policy exercised) has been 96.8% of our total sales. We're shamelessly proud of that.

What findings and techniques I'm willing to share here are informational and that's it. If you find value in it, good for you. If not that's okay and further, it won't surprise me if Sean or someone else wants to do an apparent credible job of discrediting what we do here. That will be a shame.

I take a degree of pride in who I am and how that contributes to my and other enthusiast's enjoyment of reproduced music. I'm a musician and music lover first. Then I'm an artisan and thirdly an engineer with enough experience to be so but no formal education. With current culture and, what I think is contrary to our current value system, I consider the above an asset to what Ridge Street does and has to offer. As a musician, it's a passionate hobby. As an occupation, what started out as a passionate hobby of about twenty years has turned into Ridge Street Audio Designs going on ten years.

I suppose the main thing I think is worth addressing here is that science and engineering certainly have their value in audio but it is in no wise the be all/end all that too many folks in any field (but I think especially audio and, dare I say, wire!) laud it to be...even in 21st century! I think this lauding keeps people stuck. I've not shared this before but one of my approaches to "un-stucking" enthusiasts is I don't talk about everything we do with our cabling. If I did it would be a stumbling block for some people...especially for those who like numbers, graphs, measurements, white papers, facts, facts and more facts etc. to give the only credibility as to how something in audio might sound. Like I'm sure at least some of us, I've discovered too that some things that have been defined as hugely important aren't and some things that are said not to matter are hugely important. If I were strictly an engineer or scientist and didn't venture outside that frame or strictly relied upon that frame, I doubt my conclusions would be the same. Anyway...all this.

For those of us that will look, entertain and find some relevance to what's outside the "nine dots"...

Capacitance, inductance and/or resistance values in and of themselves mean little in any given cable. Characteristic impedance is very important to optimize in a given cable application. As Sean has said, with speaker cables it's difficult but easier to optimize for. Contrary to what has been said, there are ways around it for I/Cs but admittedly there are trade-offs. Fortunately, when other things are accounted for, those trade-offs are mostly inconsequential with today's better electronics. How the characteristic impedance actually performs is of the most importance and, to my knowledge, is a parameter no one else is considering and/or talking about.

Whether your fancy is Copper, Silver, Gold, Platinum or Polyflatulent, purity is important. The quality factor of a conductor or "Q" as I've termed it for us is more important and is distinct from a conductor's purity. A high purity/low Q conductor will not sound as good as a lower purity/high Q conductor. The later is also a more expensive material. A higher purity/higher Q conductor is best...da! and is a more expensive material...da da! As for silver which is what we use, regardless of what rep someone has or how distinguished they are in the market place, there is no 6n or 7n actual silver purity. Am I popular yet! LOL!

Surface area distribution is more important than conductor gauge.

Organic insulators are best. As is of prime importance to Van den Hul for example, sealing a cable so that it's protected from the elements is very important. The down side of this type of insulator is it's more difficult to protect it from the outside envirnoment but a cable can be protected if the proper care and technique is applied and it can be done in such a manner that it doesn't degrade sonic performance. Marketing ploy: Our cables float in water. So far, that marketing approach has not worked for us...LOL!

Construction technique is as important and should work hand-in-hand with a cable's topology. They should not be mutually exclusive of each other. One with out the other makes for an inferior cable.

Cable burn-in is a good thing to do. Cable break-in is different, is system dependant and, in our view, is more important but should not take the place of burn-in.

So, again all this. I hope there's some value in this for some of you. I suppose some of this may be sort of vague but I have found the details behind this stuff to be important. For those who might question some of this, good for you. If you're inclined to bash the hell out of some of this I think a better suggestion is to go on your own mission, discover what you discover and develop your own business out of that. That would be good and I'm betting we could inspire and learn a bit from each other.

Finally, I love this and it's served as a montra for me since I saw this on Simon York's site some time ago. I trust you'll enjoy it too…

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world. The unreasonable man persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends upon the unreasonable man."

George Bernard Shaw


...Damit! I hit the submit button instead of the edit button.

Organic insulators...best but in a manufacturing environment, not practical to do properly. Especially if you need to sell tons of cabling to support your marketing campaign. Oops, I shouldn't have said that.

Sean, you're findings about the Goertz S/Cs is spot on I think. I agree with much of their approach. Honestly though, it mifs me a bit that you seem to talk almost ex-cathedra about those cables when you have no knowledge or experience about our speaker cables...the Ridge Street's are better (but of course and says I). Sorry to come across as a personal attack. My "mif" probably says more about my envy or jelousy than your comments. But I feel better now...LOL!?

Finally, again, some of you might visit our web site as a result of my previous post. I apologize in advance. The site needs to be overhauled (which will happen over the next weeks). While I think the site "looks" fairly nice, it's not informative as I would like it and it's really out dated from when it was originally done to where we are now. Not enough days in the hour to do everything I want sometimes.

Cheers,
Robert
Ozfly: That "15 minutes" was a joke. You got it, right??? : )

As far as your amp goes, it's quite possible that it does a very fine job of filtering out unwanted noise. The power supply that i described was simply a basic approach. There are other ways to achieve very good results.

As far as the "Goertz being neutral in most systems", that's how / why it works the way that it does. The problem is that not all systems work well with everything being sonically exposed for what it is and / or some people simply prefer specific colourations. That's why they resort to "band-aid" speaker cables that introduce non-linear distortions into the system. They use those distortions to cover up / compliment other distortions.

As i've mentioned before, you have to have a baseline to start with. Otherwise, you can end up changing cables & components a million times over and simply spinning your wheels. If you can get the backbone of the system to where you want it i.e. the amp / speaker cable / speakers / room interface "right", you now have something to judge the rest of the components / cabling by. Otherwise, you end up with a dozen different colourations and you don't know where to start / which is causing what / how each colourations is interacting with the others.

Psychic: I'm not holding my breath in terms of waiting for a reply from any manufacturer. Other than that, was your wording of replacing the word "beyond" with "beyonce'" a Freudian slip or what??? : ) Sean
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