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Has anyone tried double CLS

I had posed this question before because I had two pair of CLS11Z speakers in a Home theatre set up that I wanted to find a way to stack.I had just been feeling a loss of music after I sold my stacked pair of esl 57, and was curious about stacking the CLS. Would the bass improve as much as it did when the Quads were stacked?The similarity between the two speakers was that each speaker was bass shy and that attempts at sub-woofing never really were sucessful even after trying the Depth.So after seeing coverage of the RMAF and of the Kimber/Soundlab set up I decided that if they could double up the Soundlabs side by side,why couldn't the CLS be run that way?I was also bolstered by the fact that when my friend Tony went from three to four panels per side the sound from his Acoustats really improved.It is a shame that Martin Logan gave up on the CLS and went the hybrid route,because all they needed to do was increase the panel size.If Mr Saunders can get his hands on a couple of pair of CLS and wires them to a good amp in series he will hear that a lot of problems with the original CLS disappear.Maybe it will even change his priorities,so that great uncompromised sound and not floor space rules.
lacee
lacee OP
811 posts
 
You guys are all talking unproven nonsense. I am reporting the facts as I actually am living with doubled CLS11Z at the moment.Not a flight of fancy.Until you hear or try this you are just speculators.Now to get back to the real facts and truthful description of what is happening with double CLS.To begin with there are no cone speaker matches for any Stat that do any more than add disconnected bass.This is where things can really get nasty.Way back when, Harry Person substituted the Hartley cone subs for the panel Magnepan Tympanis,he got more realism and a better match to the speed of the stacked Quads.I used to own single esl 57, heard a stacked pair in Montreal, realized what I was missing and found another pair ,made the stands and away you go.It is all about the radiating area of the speaker.Anyone out there remember the Acoustat with the servo tube amps? The more panels you added,( up to 6 per side per amp)the easier the amp ran the more bass you got and the more effortless sound,the only limiting factor was room size. These are not stacked arrays,but multiple panels, side by side.This is what Kimber did at RMAF, they are not stacked,the speakers are 8 feet tall un stacked.
I have been at this game for over 30 years and I have owned the stacked 57, single 63, Acoustat 3 panel(unamplified)ML sequel and single CLS, CLS with Depth sub and now double CLS.I can tell you from real exposure to all these combinations, that the sound I have now is light years ahead of anything I have owned.Forget the subs and stands,for what you are spending you could have bought an extra pair of CLs and then know what I am talking about.
nsgarch's avatar
nsgarch
2,524 posts
 
No Rube Goldberg for me, sorry Lacee. My system does EVERYTHING just the way it is. And besides, I don't have 20 ft ceilings ;--)
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yada
158 posts
 
Everytime you mention it, I consider what you have done. Pelase send me a photo or two of your speaker setup. Offline is fine...maybe even better for me! duke@mesls.org

I am considering doing the same thing as you have, so please send a photo.

BTW, I get a 3dB to 5dB suckout from 160Hz to about 200Hz at my current listening position. Do you get that at all?
gregadd
574 posts
 
Well! Let us start then by saying the original Quad was stacked not for bass extension but to increase thier limited output which remains Quads Achilles heel.
Then vertical stacking of the Quads made sense. Theoretically you doubled the output. Moreover since the Quad beamed vertically by stacking them you created a line array of sort.
Neither of these is necessary with the CLS. Just ask my neighbors if the CLS has sufficient output.

While intuitvley you may think that having two speakers instead of one that say are 3db at 60 hz may improve your bass response. In fact you will just have 2 speakers that are 3db down at 60 hz.
triodeotl's avatar
triodeotl
9 posts
 
No I have not tried that but it would be interesting to try if a person had two matched pairs.

Since the CLS panels are mirror imaged you would not want to stack them but put them side by side. One right channel with one left channel edge to edge (side to side).

I would put the narrow side of the panel side by side (to the inside of the stereo channel pair) so that they would physically be the center of the double pair.

Then what you would want to do since you would now have two power supplies per side is to wire them in series for the speaker connection from the power amp (amps).

The hot connector from one of the speaker terminals connected to the ground of the other speaker terminal on each power supply for that pair. A long jumper could be used for this purpose.

Then you would want to connect the speaker cable (from one channel of) the amp (amps) to the hot (red terminal) on one power supply and the ground of the speaker cable (from one channel of) the amp (amps) to the ground terminal on the other power supply.

This would raise the impedance of the CLS speaker PAIRS up to about 3 0HM’s and should make it fairly easy to drive for tube power amps or whatever you are using.

Both power supplies would of course need to be plugged into the wall for AC connection for each speaker pair.

I think that it would work but the only drawback is a wide room would be necessary to accommodate both stereo pairs.

If you are not familiar with series wiring here is a link that shows how it is done with raw drivers.

http://www.bcae1.com/spkrmlti.htm

If you do try this report back and report the results.
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