Hear my Cartridges....đŸŽ¶


Many Forums have a 'Show your Turntables' Thread or 'Show your Cartridges' Thread but that's just 'eye-candy'.... These days, it's possible to see and HEAR your turntables/arms and cartridges via YouTube videos.
Peter Breuninger does it on his AV Showrooms Site and Michael Fremer does it with high-res digital files made from his analogue front ends.
Now Fremer claims that the 'sound' on his high-res digital files captures the complex, ephemeral nuances and differences that he hears directly from the analogue equipment in his room.
That may well be....when he plays it through the rest of his high-end setup 😎
But when I play his files through my humble iMac speakers or even worse.....my iPad speakers.....they sound no more convincing than the YouTube videos produced by Breuninger.
Of course YouTube videos struggle to capture 'soundstage' (side to side and front to back) and obviously can't reproduce the effects of the lowest octaves out of subwoofers.....but.....they can sometimes give a reasonably accurate IMPRESSION of the overall sound of a system.

With that in mind.....see if any of you can distinguish the differences between some of my vintage (and modern) cartridges.
VICTOR X1
This cartridge is the pinnacle of the Victor MM designs and has a Shibata stylus on a beryllium cantilever. Almost impossible to find these days with its original Victor stylus assembly but if you are lucky enough to do so.....be prepared to pay over US$1000.....đŸ€Ș
VICTOR 4MD-X1
This cartridge is down the ladder from the X1 but still has a Shibata stylus (don't know if the cantilever is beryllium?)
This cartridge was designed for 4-Channel reproduction and so has a wide frequency response 10Hz-60KHz.
Easier to find than the X1 but a lot cheaper (I got this one for US$130).
AUDIO TECHNICA AT ML180 OCC
Top of the line MM cartridge from Audio Technica with Microline Stylus on Gold-Plated Boron Tube cantilever.
Expensive if you can find one....think US$1000.

I will be interested if people can hear any differences in these three vintage MM cartridges....
Then I might post some vintage MMs against vintage and MODERN LOMC cartridges.....đŸ€—
128x128halcro
Two wonderful cartridges and each prioritizes different aspects of recorded sound. I can definitely understand why some listeners might prefer the Palladian’s spatial boldness and bass power to the Decca’s more organized and “neater” approach to imaging and sound staging. Assuming, of course, that those are sonic priorities for that listener; even when at the expense of other sonic considerations. Don’t get me wrong, there probably is nothing that the Palladian doesn’t do extremely well. However, the Decca’s tonal truthfulness is simply killer; and, that is the No.1 sonic priority for me. Once I hear that superior rendition of timbres, for me, it doesn’t matter how impressive the sound stage may be with another cartridge. Add to that the fact that tonality is inextricably linked to the perception of my No.2 sonic priority, rhythmic truthfulness, and for me the Decca is the clear winner.

Noromance makes some excellent observations and I agree once again with his comments. His comment re the children’s voices was one of the first things that I noticed. However, I don’t necessarily agree with his implication (?) that the fact that the LDR is “flatter” sounding with “less body” is a negative. As we all know, sometimes less is more; especially when we are striving for accuracy to a reference. This goes to my “spatial boldness” comment and I am not at all convinced that this boldness is not a distortion or some phase related issue. I would describe what I hear this way:

First, the Palladian tracks play slightly louder than the Decca tracks and I had to match volume levels for each. The Palladian seems to present larger individual images, but not a larger amount of information. In fact, I hear it as akin to expanding a visual image to a larger size; the detail becomes diffuse and there is less apparent detail compared to the smaller more concise image. The LDR’s images seem more concentrated and I can hear more inner detail in the sound of instruments and voices (as Noromance points out). More of the inner texture of their sounds is preserved; tonal truthfulness. The Palladian at first gives the impression of greater refinement, but that is because it rounds the leading edges compared to the LDR. One hears more realistic grit in the sound of electric guitar and bass with the LDR. I find that the finest inner details of instrumental textures are glossed over compared to the LDR. Personally, I think that the Palladian’s overall character (only compared to the LDR) is too smooth. The uppermost harmonics in the sound of instrumental timbres are diminished, Probably better now that it is in the Copperhead arm, but still a little of what Dover referred to as a “grey wash”....COMPARED TO THE LDR. The Palladian has greater bass power, but the sound of bass instruments is too rounded compared to the LDR. On the Karr recording (wonderful!) there is more of the realistic sound of rosin grabbing metal strings with the LDR which gives the sound more definition. All this goes to No.2 sonic priority, rhythm:

To my ears the bass quality of the Palladian is too “bloomy”. There is too much overhang of bass notes. At first the greater bass power and sheer bigness of it is impressive, but I think it actually mucks up the rhythmic interplay between instruments. On “The Wall”, check out the repeated bass note that begins at 4:03. Tight and well defined with the LDR. The absence of overhang allows the drums to sound more in synch with the bass for the feeling of greater rhythmic impetus in the music. With the LDR the rhythmic grooves simply sound a little groovier. On the Karr recording, his beautiful phrasing is somehow more expressive than with the Palladian. At 3:13 he begins a phrase with a suddenly aggressive bowed note. There is a certain amount of startle factor to that musical detail. With the Palladian’s there is less startle factor than with the LDR which sounds faster and more impactful due to the absence of the extra bloom and thickness of the Palladian’s bass.

All this is relatively subtle and both are great cartridges. However, as always, they can’t both sound equally close to the true sound of music while sounding so different. For me, the Decca gets closer.

Great comparison. Wonderful recordings. I love the Karr recording. Believer it or not, had never heard music from “The Wall” and had not followed the band since “Dark Side “ days. I liked it very much. One to pick up.

Thanks, as always.




I'm pleased you like the Gary Karr 'Kol Nidre' Fogman 😃
I thought you would.....although it gets only half the views on YouTube that 'The Wall' gets 😞
Also really glad you enjoyed hearing 'The Wall' for the first time....
It deserves a place in your collection as does their 'WISH YOU WERE HERE' album.

As usual, your comments re the PALLADIAN vs LDR 'Shootout' were brilliant....but I appreciate how you went the 'Extra Mile' in putting into words...in fine detail...what you hear to be the differences.
I cannot disagree with a single description or observation you have made 👍
You even pre-empted what would have been my only contribution, by anticipating...
I can definitely understand why some listeners might prefer the Palladian’s spatial boldness and bass power to the Decca’s more organized and “neater” approach to imaging and sound staging.
At first the greater bass power and sheer bigness of it is impressive,
Two great cartridges, I agree....and I'm particularly pleased that your 'Winner' is not a Moving Coil Cartridge đŸ€—

I now have the Palladian permanently ensconced on the Copperhead Tonearm whilst the LDR is sitting pretty on one of the FR-66S Tonearms.
That allows for my other FR-66S to continue to serve as my 'Test Bed' and 'Flavour Change' for all my other LOMCs.

I now hope you can help me settle....in the same way.....the MM Cartridges to be 'selected' for the arms around the Victor TT-101?

Many thanks again Frogman..and Dover, Noromance, Harold and others who have commented...😃

Regards 
From the 'sublime' to the 'ridiculous' đŸ€Ș
It seems that with careful selection, one can get what one pays for with phono cartridges....
The best (in my case) being the $5,000 LONDON DECCA REFERENCE  and the $10,000 AS PALLADIAN 
But the majority of audiophiles are not in the market for that kind of expenditure on a cartridge.
What can one purchase for a more modest $450...?
For decades....thousands of audiophiles have used the DENON DL-103R as their 'budget' LOMC cartridge.
DENON'S involvement with moving coil cartridges dates back to the 1930s when they were engaged in a joint R&D effort with NHK to produce a high performance and high reliability cartridge for broadcast use. The legendary DL-103 moving coil phono cartridge was introduced in 1963, which became one of the longest running products in audio history. 
Denon collaborated with the Japan Broadcasting Corporation Technical Research Laboratories in 1963 to make this extremely reliable, high-performance low-output phono cartridge. As the first moving coil cartridge, the DL-103 will always be the standard of reliability in every aspect, even the price.
It can still be bought today, 'brand new' for $450...

Then there is the venerable SHURE V15/III which can be purchased 'used' for less.
But most audiophiles will not accept or buy a 'used' cartridge with unknown provenance and usage hours.
For $200, one can purchase a 'used' V15/III WITHOUT its original stylus 😀 
For $200 more....one can purchase directly from Jico....their famous SAS stylus on a Boron cantilever or for $250, the SAS stylus on a Sapphire cantilever.
This will give you, essentially a 'Brand New' Shure V15/III which is much improved over the original because of the radical profile of the SAS diamond and the more sophisticated cantilever.

Which one is better....? đŸ€”

DENON DL-103R
A 'Wall of Sound' that would make Phil Spector blanch...

SHURE V15/III/SAS 

SHURE V15/III/SAS

DENON DL-103R
Listen at the 0.49 second mark for the 'ice pop' in the Scotch đŸ„ƒÂ 
Heard the ice plop! What scotch are you drinking?
Wife said Shure sounds nicer playing on the phone, in bed.
Macallan 25? The Palladian of single malt Scotch. Bold, a little rounded, slightly sweet with a very long finish (that pesky overhang) and $$$$$.  Would recognize that sound anywhere 😄😄😄😄😄.