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Hear my Cartridges....🎶

Many Forums have a 'Show your Turntables' Thread or 'Show your Cartridges' Thread but that's just 'eye-candy'.... These days, it's possible to see and HEAR your turntables/arms and cartridges via YouTube videos.
Peter Breuninger does it on his AV Showrooms Site and Michael Fremer does it with high-res digital files made from his analogue front ends.
Now Fremer claims that the 'sound' on his high-res digital files captures the complex, ephemeral nuances and differences that he hears directly from the analogue equipment in his room.
That may well be....when he plays it through the rest of his high-end setup 😎
But when I play his files through my humble iMac speakers or even worse.....my iPad speakers.....they sound no more convincing than the YouTube videos produced by Breuninger.
Of course YouTube videos struggle to capture 'soundstage' (side to side and front to back) and obviously can't reproduce the effects of the lowest octaves out of subwoofers.....but.....they can sometimes give a reasonably accurate IMPRESSION of the overall sound of a system.

With that in mind.....see if any of you can distinguish the differences between some of my vintage (and modern) cartridges.
VICTOR X1
This cartridge is the pinnacle of the Victor MM designs and has a Shibata stylus on a beryllium cantilever. Almost impossible to find these days with its original Victor stylus assembly but if you are lucky enough to do so.....be prepared to pay over US$1000.....🤪
VICTOR 4MD-X1
This cartridge is down the ladder from the X1 but still has a Shibata stylus (don't know if the cantilever is beryllium?)
This cartridge was designed for 4-Channel reproduction and so has a wide frequency response 10Hz-60KHz.
Easier to find than the X1 but a lot cheaper (I got this one for US$130).
AUDIO TECHNICA AT ML180 OCC
Top of the line MM cartridge from Audio Technica with Microline Stylus on Gold-Plated Boron Tube cantilever.
Expensive if you can find one....think US$1000.

I will be interested if people can hear any differences in these three vintage MM cartridges....
Then I might post some vintage MMs against vintage and MODERN LOMC cartridges.....🤗
128x128halcro
dover
2,271 posts
 
@halcro
1st imression at 47k was a bit of a surprise for me, with several Garrot Decca Golds under my belt, the LDR was a lot smoother at 47k than the Decca Golds of old at 47k - they were rip your ears off.

Having said that moving to the 15k, for me the variations are quite noticeable ( even on Mac earbuds ). At 15k the string sections are not only more fleshed out but the coherency and timing, particularly in the upper bass/lower mid area is much crisper and more rhythmically coherent.

Frogman can comment on instrument accuracy, he might suggest a little too warm on some sections of the orchestra, but for me the timing and coherency at 15k easily outstrips 47k, the music far better communicated and more enjoyable at this setting.

With the old Garrott modded Deccas I preferred 22k - have you tried this value with the LDR ?
noromance's avatar
noromance
9,988 posts
 
My wife even heard the difference playing the phone on the table. Much the same as what @dover said. Nicer tone and easier to follow. Transient attack might be a little slower.
Interestingly, I prefer 47k on my lesser Deccas. Mostly because I love detail and the sound I get. 
halcro's avatar
halcro OP
2,664 posts
 
Isn't it fantastic that you both heard the differences so clearly on the simplest devices 😃
I can also hear them through my iPad and iMac speakers but was not sure if it was my 'knowing' the 'live' sound that might influence my hearing 🤔
I agree with both of you....
At 15K Ohms and 430pF....the cartridge simply comes 'alive'....
The changes in loading produce more fundamental differences than heard on many of the cartridge vs cartridge comparisons IMO 🤯
I think this proves quite convincingly....that phono pre-amps without fully adjustable loadings (in both Resistance and Capacitance) are designed without any appreciation for the beauty, nuances and NEEDS of MM/MI cartridges 🙃

Yes @dover ...I tried a multitude of combinations from 10K-60K Ohms Resistance and 0-430pF Capacitance and somewhat skeptically....arrived at 15K Ohms and Zero pF.
I say "skeptically" because that has been the general advice throughout the years, by so-called 'Experts'.
And I'm normally skeptical of experts....🥱😴

Thanks for your valued feedback....
bydlo
142 posts
 
A subject dear to my heart, thank you @halcro  for posting :)
For me the differences were not big (iphone6+apple earbuds) and had to switch back and forth several times. The most prominent is the "LF breathng" at 15K. It adds a very nice foundation to the sound, organizing it not only at LF but higher up in the spectrum. Add to the illusion of the recording venue. The bass (surprisingly) more controlled and (perhaps?) less boomy. In general, more involving and interesting presentation.
I'm not yet at the load play with my LDR but will try going down to 15K definitely!
halcro's avatar
halcro OP
2,664 posts
 
I was wondering how you were going with your LDR @bydlo...?
It is important though, with the loading down at 15K Ohms....that the Capacitance is raised significantly to approx 430pF.
If you only load to 15K without adding Capacitance......the sound will be too 'plummy' and warm.
If you have adjustable Cap loading, you can dial in the exact 'sparkle' you want 💍
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