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Help appreciated: Martin Logan Statement E2

I just purchased the last demo pair of Martin Logan Statement E2 and am building a dedicated listening room with the help of Rives Audio. Need your help and advice as I need to now select the best match for amps and preamps for this system. These speakers are notoriously inefficient and I have seen a 1000 watt amp (into 8 ohms) clip driving the front panels. I play music quite loud (concert levels) and have a large room (19ft x 24ft x 13ft (height)) and therefore need a lot of amplification. However, I still covet the refinement, not just power: sweet midrange, extended treble, holographic imaging (as much as possible with an electrostatic), etc. So the amps that I am considering for the front panels would be the McIntosh 2kcW (2000 watt monoblock), Krell Evo Ones (2 sets for the front panel), Pass Lab 1000.5, Audio Research Ref 600, and VTLs.

I listen to everything from female jazz vocals to rock, to classical, to pop music so it is hard to generalize my musical preferences. I also own a set of Pipedreams driven by VAC equipment in another setup in my other home and also have the top of the line MBL system as well in my living room -- however, I do not have a lot of experience with electrostats. I realize that the Statements will be a compromise as it does not have the "slam" of cone speaker and the dynamic range and does have integration issues with the main panel and the midbass and the subs -- but there is magic with regards to the speed, the midrange and the treble of these speakers especially on female jazz vocals that I am willing to take the compromise. In advance, thank you for your advice.
cchp
10 responses Add your response
t_bone
1,182 posts
 
These speakers (and other MLs, have a somewhat ugly impedance curve, dropping into the 1s at the highest frequencies. You need amplifiers which will not 'complain' with an impedance drop to 1 ohm AND which have the power/magic to do what you want. From personal experience, I know VTLs can do that quite well. I did not like transistor amps on my MLs.

I would recommend searching the archives for posts by 'atmasphere' (the extremely knowledgeable and helpful amplifier mfr. - who makes amps which may be particularly unsuitable to your needs), and reading the two [http://www.atma-sphere.com/papers/index.html]Atmasphere white papers[/url] about amplifier myths.

Disclaimer: I own a pair of VTLs, once owned a pair of lower-end MLs which sounded quite nice, and have participated in a thread or two with 'atmasphere' (and read his white papers). I have no other connection to the parties involved.
cchp OP
7 posts
 
Thanks T bone. I am not a technical expert but have heard that about the MLs.

Does this rule out the McIntosh mc2kw?
t_bone
1,182 posts
 
The McIntosh 2kW specs suggest there are three output levels: 2, 4, and 8 ohms. I have never thought about the best way to deal with amp/speaker combos where the impedance range spans several taps on the amp. I have never heard these amps; I am sure they are nice with the right speakers (they'd better be for that price/weight/heat-point). Given the money it appears you are willing to spend, if you are going new, I would imagine any dealer will allow you to do a home demo. If not going new, I would try to borrow a solid state McIntosh somewhere else.

Personally, given what you stated you are looking for out of these speakers, I would expect that tubes would do you better anyway.

Please forgive the ugly link in the previous post. The Atma-sphere white papers are here.
starcon
98 posts
 
I heard the ML Statements at a dealer with the big boulder amps. They cost about 100 K and were stunning. So if money is no object-
chris74
99 posts
 
I would definitely try the Berning Quadrature Z Mono blocks. I've personally used numerous ZH270 combinations in the past with Soundlabs and the results were outstanding. The lightning fast yet musical character of the Berning designs compliment electrostatics perfectly. Also, the Berning designs are legendary for being very robust and stable under all loads. Tube life on these amps is very long as well.
cchp OP
7 posts
 
Chris, thanks, not familiar w the Berning but will check it out
cchp OP
7 posts
 
Starcon,

I have heard the Boulders although not w the MLs but I am sure they would be stunning. A little bit more than I want to spend but great suggestion
chris74
99 posts
 
Cchp, I really hope you get the chance to listen to the Berning Quadrature monos with your Logans. OTL tube amplifiers combined with electrostatics are some of the most amazing combinations you are likely to hear. I think you will be stunned with the Berning/Martin Logan Statement combination.
audiofun
799 posts
 
My two cents; please offer comments on my comments. From a purely engineering standpoint I would think that OTL's would be one of the worst choices in the world to team up with an electrostatic speaker. Now let me say I have heard the Statements before but it was with krell and vtl.

I have never heard stats with an OTL but I'm aware that a good number of people aware by this combination. I personally think what they are hearing is the hi-frequent roll-off that one will see with these two technologies.

OTL's have relatively high output impedance's and like to see as high a load impedance as possible, now take note that electrostats behave more and more like be capacitors the higher in frequency you go i.e. the higher the frequency the lower the impedance into the speaker. Starting to see my point...? Amp with high output impedance and a speaker with a vanishing impedance as the frequency goes up, now what you have a is a 1st order HF filter with the amps impedance consuming more of the power than is being delivered to the speaker.

I would imagine the properties that advocates of this combination laud is one of sweetness and presence (with no harshness or rather what is perceived to be a dirth of anything offensive) which can certainly appear to be the case when the treble is rolled off.

Not trying to start a fight but after waiting literally for years for someone smarter than me to point this out I thought I would finally put it out and get seom feedback on your collective thoughts :)

Thanks and happy listening
dracule1
1,085 posts
 
I've never heard a bad sounding ML speaker (lower midrange on up) using Audio Research Tube amps. Actually some of the best sound I've ever heard coming from a pair of CLS was produced by AR amps. Another great amp are the old Mark Levinson amps (ie from the 80's), like the 20's and ML2, but I don't think they have enough juice for the E2.
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